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Mass of the Chrism, 2010

Most Catholics are not much aware of the Mass of the Chrism, which is nestled inconspicuously among the awesome rites of Holy Week. Like the Mass of the Lord's Supper, it is a Mass of Holy Thursday, meant to be celebrated in the morning of that day of introduction into the suffering, death, and resurrection of Jesus, celebrated from Good Friday to Easter Sunday. In our diocese, as in dioceses throughout our country, the Mass of the Chrism is traditionally celebrated earlier in Holy Week simply for the practical reason that the priests need to get back to their parishes. But like the Mass of the Lord's supper on Holy Thursday evening, it is a Mass of Holy Thursday, and it represents for those who share in the royal priesthood of Baptism and for those who share in the ministerial priesthood of Ordination a participation in the continuing effects of the Lord’s sacrifice of Himself on the cross as priest and victim, which we commemorate each year during the sacred three days of Good Friday, Holy Saturday, and Easter Sunday.

We await in joyful hope the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the final revelation of the New Jerusalem, but we are not there yet. We are still on the journey through this vale of tears, this world of suffering and sin and anxiety. As we move slowly forward towards the glory initiated that first Easter, we are daily reminded of our frailty, and of God’s provident love in caring for us on the journey. Always, like the first century disciples to whom today's second reading from the Book of the Apocalypse was addressed, we disciples of this day are strengthened and energized on our journey home to Jerusalem by the vision in faith of Jesus, the risen Lord, our Alpha and Omega, the faithful witness who continues each day to reveal to us the Father's love in the midst of our struggles. “To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood and made us a kingdom, priests to our God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever.”

As Jesus said in his synagogue in Nazareth, when he began his earthly ministry, he is the one who has come into a broken world to fulfill the prophecy of Isaiah: “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because the Lord has anointed me. He has sent me to bring glad tidings to the lowly, to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty for captives, and release to the prisoners, to announce a year of favour from the Lord.” What he promised at the beginning of his earthly ministry, and brought to fulfillment through his suffering, death, and resurrection, he makes present down through time through the continuation of his presence on earth in word and sacrament.

On the evening of Holy Thursday we commemorate the institution of the Eucharist, through which we are given the heavenly food for our earthly journey, and through which the sacrifice Christ on the cross is made present now in our lives. This sustains all of the disciples of the Lord, but it is certainly central to the life of every disciple whom the Lord has called to share in his priesthood through ordination. A priest is ordained to celebrate the Eucharist. It must be the center of his priestly life. As he celebrates the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass every day of his life, he is renewed in the mission he received on the day of his ordination. In his hours of adoration before Our Eucharistic Lord he rediscovers each day the purpose of his life as a disciple, and as one called to be an apostle, and a servant of the servants of God.

As the Eucharist is the gift of Holy Thursday, the Sacrament of Reconciliation is the gift of Easter: “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you .... Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” These words of Our Risen Lord commission us in our life as confessors, instruments of God's mercy in the service of His people. We need to offer this sacrament widely, at the convenience of the people, so that they may always be able easily to experience its healing power. And to be a good confessor a priest must be a good penitent. It is essential that a priest frequently go to confession: not just advisable, but essential.

At this Mass of the Chrism, we will be blessing the Oil of the Catechumens, an ancient sign of the strength which God gives to those who are baptised. As today’s second reading reminds us, each disciple shares in the baptismal priesthood, called to bring God to this world and this world to God through a life of faithful discipleship in the imitation of Christ, and the Oil of the Catechumens is a reminder of the struggle which Christian witness involves.

We bless the Oil of the Sick. As we hear in the Letter of James, the priests of the Church are sent to anoint those who are sick. As the minister of the Sacrament of Reconciliation, the priest is used by the Lord for the healing of the sinful spirit. As minister of the Sacrament of the Sick, the priest brings strength to those who are suffering from the physical afflictions that beset fragile humanity during the brief journey through this world.

This Mass takes its name from the consecration of the Holy Chrism, the perfumed sacred oil that calls to mind the anointing of the prophets, priests, and kings of old, and which forms the very title of Jesus, the anointed one, the messiah, the Christ.

Each baptized disciple is anointed with Chrism as he or she receives the gift of the Holy Spirit at Confirmation. The Christian is consecrated to be a faithful witness to Christ, to proclaim the Gospel through words and deeds, and most profoundly through a life of Christian integrity lived amid the temptations to infidelity that come from the world, the flesh, and the devil. Every Christian, consecrated with Chrism, must daily engage in the spiritual combat against all three sources of temptation, and is strengthened and filled with joy through the power of the Lord, who is always near. When we Christians look around at the evil in the world, and look within at our own weaknesses, there is no cause for dismay, for fundamentally, the strife is over, the battle won, but until we finally finish the journey of life we must always confront the manifold temptations of fallen humanity.

Recognizing that, it has occurred to me that we should pray more frequently the ancient prayer, rooted in Sacred Scripture, that invokes the patron saint of our Archdiocese: “Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in this day of battle, be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray, and do you, 0 prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God, cast down into hell Satan and all the evil spirits who wander through the world, seeking the ruin of souls.” A little realism is healthy in a disciple.

The sacred Chrism, used at Confirmation, also is used to anoint the hands of a priest and the head of a bishop. That is a particular reason why this Mass of the Chrism is a time for those who are anointed as priests or bishops to think deeply about their mission on this day. That is why it is at this Mass that we renew our promises of commitment to faithful service.

Ordination is not employment; it is consecration. We are consecrated, anointed with the Oil of Chrism. The priesthood is not what we do, it is who we are. Although common sense, humility, and the instructions from the manufacturer in Genesis Chapter one all dictate that priests need to be sure that there is appropriate Sabbath in their lives - there is one Messiah and it is not you or me ¬nonetheless, we never, ever, take a break from being a priest. Our whole life is consecrated to Our Lord. That is why we need to be attentive to four pillars of priestly life: daily Mass, daily celebration of the Divine Office, daily time in prayerful adoration, and frequent confession. We are all vessels of clay, but we are consecrated to priestly holiness in the service of Jesus, our great High Priest, and to the people whom he entrusts to our pastoral care. That is what celibacy is all about: consecrated virginity in the service of Christ the King. We are called to give our whole life to consecrated service, to marry the mission.

Each of us here present can think of the faithful priests who were used by God to inspire us with the call to the priesthood. Their example of lifelong joyful priestly service speaks more than words can do of the significance of being consecrated as a priest. After Mass we will gather to celebrate the priestly service of those ordained 25, 50, and 60 years. This day we give thanks to God for their fidelity. In May we will celebrate the ordination of five more new priests, whom we welcome into the presbyterate of this Archdiocese.

We learn about the real meaning of the priesthood at ordinations, when we experience the beginning of the joy of the consecration to the priestly mission, at anniversaries, when we celebrate milestones of priestly service, and finally at the funeral of a priest, when we gather to give thanks to God for a life of faithful service.

People expect that one who is consecrated with the holy oil of Chrism, will act in an exemplary manner, and never betray the trust which people know they should be able to place in a Catholic priest. At his ordination we pray: Bless this chosen man, and set him apart for his sacred duties. And yet to our shame some have used the awesome gift of the holy priesthood for base personal gratification, betraying the innocent and devastating their lives. When that happens, our first concern must be for those innocent young people who have been abused, to help them overcome their suffering, and to resolve to take whatever steps are needed to be as sure as is possible that this does not happen again. We have all had to learn through failures and mistakes and that is especially true of bishops, who have sometimes failed in their responsibility to act effectively.

For this diocese, anyone who looks at our website can see the policies that are in place to help us to act rightly, but we must never be satisfied.

We cannot escape the horror of this by pointing out that almost all priests serve faithfully, though that fact is a grace that gives joy to the Catholic people, whose love and prayerful support sustains us all. But even one priest gone wrong causes immense harm, and throughout the world priests have done unspeakable evil.

We should be grateful for the attention which the media devotes to the sins of Catholic clergy, even if constant repetition may give the false impression that Catholic clergy are particularly sinful. That attention is a profound tribute to the priesthood which we celebrate at this Mass of the Chrism. People instinctively expect holiness in a Catholic priest, and are especially appalled when he does evil.

As we look to the continuing painful purification of the Church, we all need in a particular way to give thanks to God for the leadership of Joseph Ratzinger, as Cardinal and Pope, who has acted decisively, fairly, consistently, and courageously to purify the priesthood and to make the Church a safe place for everyone. Anyone with any knowledge of this terrible reality realizes that Pope Benedict has led the way in confronting this evil.

As this day we celebrate the Mass of the Chrism, and are reminded once more of the profound consecration to Christ that is at the heart of the priesthood, this year we celebrate the year of the priest. We call to mind the faithful priests who inspired us to respond to the call to the priesthood. We resolve to live each day as faithful priests, in joyful service of Our Lord.

In a particular way look to the example, and pray for the intercession of our heavenly Patron, Saint John Vianney, the holy Curé of Ars. It is interesting that we usually simply call him not by his name, but by his mission: he for us forever, the Curé of Ars - the Pastor of his people in that little village in France. I have just finished reading another biography describing his life, and I was profoundly moved when at the end of a chapter describing his early life, and first few years as a young priest assisting the holy pastor who had inspired him, the author mentions how he was finally given an assignment as pastor of a little parish, where few practiced their faith. The chapter ends with the words: “And so young Father Jean Vianney set out down the road to become the Curé of Ars.” Yes, that was his new pastoral assignment. But more than that: he set out down that road to become the awesome Curé of Ars, inspiration to us all.
He knelt down on the ground before entering the village to beg God’s grace that he might be a good and faithful pastor, for he humbly knew his natural limitations.

He lived a life of simplicity and humility, above all constantly praying for his people. I often recall the story of when he wanted to go away to live as a monk in penitence, conscious of his unworthiness to be the pastor of the village, a young boy grabbed his breviary, and Father Vianney returned to Ars - for he could not go a step further without the breviary through which he offered prayers daily for his people.

He was aware that the struggle was not merely with earthly dangers and evils, but against satanic powers as well. He was no fool, nor naive.

He lived simply for the service of his people, day after day, praying for them.

He was above all the saint of the confessional, making the sacrament of reconciliation freely available to people who eventually came from all over the world to go to confession to him. And he was famous for giving light penances to the penitents, for he did their penances for them.

He is our patron saint, our hero, the model of a parish priest, of a man who knew what it meant to be ordained to the Holy Priesthood and consecrated with the sacred Chrism to the faithful, constant, total priestly service of God’s people.

        

Discussing the Familia Apostolate, Family life,Vocations                                                                       and the lay apostolate serving within the Church.

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Discussion with Nicole Campbell about the upcoming 40 Days for Life Toronto beginning on February 17th - March 28th 10
Please share this important and timely event with your loved ones. 

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Father Stan Fortuna visited Toronto recently to present his new book entitled "U Got to Love"
The book signing and presentation was held at the Daughters of Saint Paul Dufferin location.
In Part two of this two part series he speaks a bit about his new Book "U Got to Love" available
through  Francesco Productions.
Check out Part Two below.

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Father Stan Fortuna visited Toronto recently to present his new book entitled "U Got to Love"
The book signing and presentation was held at the Daughters of Saint Paul Dufferin location.
In Part One of this two part series he speaks a bit about his background growing up in New York
and his musical background ultimately leading to his journey to becoming a Franciscan.
Check out Part one below.

Download | Duration: 00:22:36

        

Allan Cruz, Daniel Blodgett and Fr. Matthew Habiger from Natural Family Planning Outreach sit down to discuss issues surrounding the Family in Society and the Church, Humane Vitae, Feminism and its impact on the modern Family plus much more.   Part Three of Three.

Download | Duration: 00:19:36

        

Download | Duration: 00:34:21

Allan Cruz, Daniel Blodgett and Fr. Matthew Habiger from Natural Family Planning Outreach sit down to discuss issues surrounding the Family in Society and the Church, Humane Vitae, Feminism and its impact on the modern Family plus much more.   Part Two of Three

        

   

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Allan Cruz, Daniel Blodgett and Fr. Matthew Habiger from Natural Family Planning Outreach sit down to discuss issues surrounding the Family in Society and the Church, Humane Vitae, Feminism and its impact on the modern Family plus much more.   Part One of Three

        

Download | Duration: 00:44:41

    

        

        

Part Two of Audio Discussion with Chaplaincy Leader Brian Finamore

        

        

        

Part One Refresher

B: Now again – in 1985 – with full funding – everything happened so fast. You know we just expanded. You know to maybe use a secular example – a company expanding before they – so its really been thirty years – in 2015 - its twenty-five in 2000. I think we’re starting to kind a of get a little bit of a handle on things right. Like when we expanded – like the formation of principal is crucial – like the principal has to know the story (the Catholic story) – the principal has to be! I think we’re getting a little better now. But in the early going – like there were no principals. So the formation is a little bit better. I mean I see two steps forward – one step back. Is it perfect? No. Like the devil is alive- unfortunately right – and the devil will do whatever he can to destroy. But I’ve seen some really wonderful – I’m encouraged more than I’m discouraged.

Part Two

D: Well that’s good! So you see a lot of hope.

B: I do. Now I see hope – I don’t see hope for the future of our schools though.

D: Yep! Well you have to be realistic as well right!

B: Yeah like Catholic education will always exist. But this fully funded model – I don’t know – 10 more years. The Muslims want schools.

D: Do you find – cause what I’ve found talking to a lot of people – and it kind of brings up – its an interesting contradiction actually. You hear a lot of times you know ‘I want to send my kids to a Catholic school cause there’s more structure, there’s morality there.’
And you hear public schools they’re a little more – less focused on morality and there’s not as much religious basis there

F: They call it Character Development now

D: Oh!

B: That’s the buzz word in public school. Character Development

D: Okay (sarcastically) Character development. Well we’re not politically correct here- (referring to the magazine) so you know- I’m not going to apologize for that. But you sort of have what Fulton J Sheen said “ If you want your kids to know the faith and to defend it – don’t send them to the Catholic school- you kind of have two different ideas here. Do you see that – because obviously a lot of non-Catholics faiths would possibly send their kids to (Catholic schools) – do you see an increase in Muslims in the board? How do you see or How is that – I wouldn’t say a challenge – but how does that influence the faith within the schools itself?

B: Well it’s an excellent question. We have schools in this board Dan that are over 50 percent non-Catholic - okay now in the north Brampton area – at Saint Francis Xavier’s its about thirty per cent. On one level – on one level – I think its very beautiful – to have these kids there – for the kids to get along. There is a level. What’s unfortunate is that it does water things down. It does water things down. I mean the kids come – how Catholic of a school are you when - you know - the president of the student council is a Hindu – right – right? Now that exists - that is a current situation in our school board. Now you know – he’s a Hindu – he’s the president –he’s the – like he’s modeling what- what exactly is he modeling now? He’s modeling his Hindu faith? You know things get blurred. What ends up happening and this is what – like all faiths are considered to be equal.

D: Which is if I’m not mistaken a heresy.

B: So yeah all faiths aren’t equal right. There’s truth in all faiths. Yes there’s truth in your faith. But you know that’s the danger is that kids just think ‘You know I’m on this path. He’s on that path.’ No! Jesus is the way! And so we can say that but then we’re not living that. We’re not living that. And for us not to be able to convince these kids right. Are we even prepared? We would have students in here that might be able to convince a kid to switch from Coke to Diet Coke but …

D: Yeah. You think there’s a lack of Catechesis? Do you think maybe that’s something that needs to be looked upon more in the future? Is maybe incorporating an RCIA type – cause there seems to be a lot of assumption that people go to Church on Sunday and they know their faith. Or if you’re baptized you would understand the Catholic faith and you know just in my dealings with a lot of different people from a lot of different walks of life – you get a real sense that people really don’t know their own faith. I mean people who are going week after week to Church. Do you think its time maybe to start looking seriously at the option with the Catholic schools that there is a sort of Catechism class incorporated into the program?

B: Yeah well I would think like how would you get kids to go?

D: No but I mean considering the fact that it’s the Catholic school do you think – because you know – after grade nine – grade eights aren’t really – when they go through the Confirmation training they’re not really there yet – in terms of paying attention. And you don’t really get there – some of us never get there. Some of us are very easily distracted.
But do you think it would be appropriate to have a course that is specifically part of the curriculum - you know that’s required to be taken that is very in depth on the faith and very thorough on understanding and being able to defend it. You think that’s something that …

B: that could be - like as a course in high school. I mean that could be you know - I know that the grade 12 program is ethics based right and you look at what the Church says in issues like Euthanasia, Invitro-fertilization - and what the Church says in some of the more complex areas. Like I would say yeah! The problem would be: where do you find teachers to teach stuff like that? Unfortunately in the schools the religion teacher is usually the – not in this school – at Xavier it was really a problem – where ‘we really want you to coach basketball so you’re an elementary teacher. You can teach religion.’
So you have the teacher –

D: So it’s kind of brushed off almost –

B: There’d be no way to teach that. There’d be no way. To teach a course in Catechetics would require that you be at least some what of a theologian – either professionally or self taught – trained right. So I would just like to say the biggest problem facing the Church right now is my generation of parent. And maybe ten years younger. That’s the biggest problem. I think that these kids are going to be a little bit better. They’re going to know a little bit more. Like they know a lot more than I ever did. Like Dan at least these kids are in the bible – like there’s courses in scripture right. I never read the bible. Catholic school – one of the best school’s in Ontario – never – we never read the bible. Like we we’re at Mass. Religion – like these kids get credit now right, so religion would be a course that I would go to – I went all the time – but some kids never went because you didn’t get a credit for it. Ask your parents - like talk about the good ol days of Catholic education – you know.

D: So you see an improvement?

B: There’s going to be a little bit of improvement. Like these kids will – like they know their way around a little bit more. But yeah in terms of praying the rosary – like a lot of these kids will be doing it in their families. Or at least they’ll have a little bit of knowledge of where they – like online magazines like yours – Ewtn websites amazing – Radio Maria’s website is amazing. You can pray the rosary with the pope. You can log on and pray along with the pope. So I think – they know where to find information. I think it’ll be – my son Patrick is doing a project on Anglicanism – so last Sunday he goes – he’s in grade 7 – “Dad can we go to an Anglican mass?” – “Okay let’s go” - So his friend Liam – we go down to Saint James Cathedral for the Anglican mass – there wasn’t fifty people there – there wasn’t fify – It was very sad – In fact my kids – my son Patrick is going to be thirteen in June – he was the youngest – he and his friend Liam- by about forty years. I just thought there’s a church that is dying. Now there’s probably vibrant Anglican churches around right. There is probably good things happening but its dying. And I worry you know – like if we don’t have the Catholic schools in this format – will people pay to send their kids to Catholic schools? I don’t know. I don’t know. Will – like what will the effect be? I think the fact that kids come – like I think – they’re in the system at least right – they’re here. Like “Do you go to mass on Sunday?” “No I really don’t” “Do you go to Mass at least four / five times a school year? You go to confession twice?” They are at least in the system right. They are like the sheep that’s kind of still in the fold but – I just worry about if they are not here.

D: Do you think that’s a parental influence?

B: Yeah absolutely.

D: What would you say to the parents? Because obviously you deal with a lot of parents and families with various situations – probably – unfortunately there’s the majority of the time you get a call it’s not because – “You know our family life is great” – you know – you probably deal with a lot of the sour issues. How would you encourage parents or

B: Now this is where Catechism should come in. Because I use to offer a course and it was really really popular. The reason the course was offered was – I stopped it because it was so time consuming for me – it was so time consuming – what I would do – I would – it was for parents who had fallen away from the Church or for parents who were sending their kids to Catholic schools but who weren’t Catholic. And it would begin like this Daniel : I’d have two blackboards. I’d say “Okay” – this is the first night – “What is it that you don’t like about the Catholic Church.”- and the board would be full. And it would all be full with misconceptions.

D: That’s interesting. Bringing up Fulton Sheen again, one of the things he said was: “Majority of people hate what they think is the Catholic Church.”

B: Yeah – no for sure. For sure. And then I’d “What do you like about the Catholic Church?” And you’d get a lot of things that people liked about it too right. And then what I’d do is I’d go over everything that they said they didn’t like and we’d try to find out what the Catholic Church really says. And one woman would say: ‘Well if I was pregnant and I was diagnosed with cancer they church would say I couldn’t take the Chemo because I would kill the baby and what about my other kids?’ And all these other bizarre anecdotal things right. You know so what we would do is go through and find out what the Church really says right. And I think that most people have left the Church, maybe they’ve been hurt by someone in the Church or their own conscience has weighed them down so much that they think – and the anger – some way to welcome them back right – some way to educate what the Church really says. And because this is how the lies get propagated right.

D: Oh definitely. And you know – you talk to many people – and a lot of the people create this sort of turmoil out there –

B: Like ‘Why does the Church say that homosexuals can’t have sex? Why? Why?’
Well the Church also says that heterosexuals who aren’t married aren’t suppose to have sex. So the Church is very consistent here. “Or why If you can’t have a baby. Why can’t I invitro-fertilization?” So as you can imagine it can be very time consuming.

D: Yeah definitely.

B: Or ‘Why? The Church says if babies aren’t baptized they go to hell. Or they go to limbo. What kind of God would do that?’ All these things would come out. No and ‘the Church hides pedophiles’ Well so –

D: And you know these are things that I constantly encounter with people who are baptized Catholics – who are – no longer belong to any affiliation. Or just out in the world. You find there’s a lot of worldliness with kids?

B: You know there’s a lot of brand association. Like the kids are branded.

D: And when you say branded in terms of music styles – or specifically – do you find its more rap – hiphop? Now I’m not knocking putting down any genre – but do you think that there’s a real influence from the music now a days?

B: Yeah I think there’s a book probably that could be written – maybe if it already is- that the effect that MTV

D: Yeah it’s so stereotyped

B: They we’re able to – you know in my day – and your parent’s day – rock was the all encompassing genre. Now there’s – MTV – in order to market products – they’ve broken it into various segments right.

D: Okay I see what you mean. Different channels and

B: Yeah and so you’re alternative rock. Like on satellite radio there’s a hundred and some stations. And they’ve broken it down – like there’s the Starbuck’s channel – and I’m thinking – they’ve studied and they’ve found similar traits among people that like jazz – that like this- and what they’ve done is create a subculture in there right. And then they market products to that subculture. Like that all news radio station – 680 – it doesn’t have very high ratings right – I mean through out the course of the day people might listen to five minutes or ten minutes and then they turn off – but the demographic is so specific that people will pay. What is it – Spike TV – or whatever right – like even though the ratings aren’t that high – they know the market and they can almost guarantee the product that you’re going to sell those guys are watching and ‘they’re going to buy the bowflex man’ – it fits perfect. So I see a lot of kids that they’re totally branded right.

D: You think that causes a lot of conflict within schools?

B: In some schools it does really does yeah. I can determine where you sit in the café, where you sit in your classroom, who you’re friends are – so much is determined in a few seconds of your total career

D: And its interesting – I was listening to a pre-recorded talk on Catholic answers – it was talking about teen spirituality and as well how its influenced by – there was a study done I believe in the 40’s on the most influential people in their lives or influences – tv, peers, media, God, parents- and back then parents was within the top three and peers was way at the bottom and now peers is the number one.

B: Well Danny you know the term teenager – like have you checked the word out – do you know when the word came into existence?

D: To be honest no.

B: Yeah it’s really a 20th century phenomenon. People were married when they were thirteen/ fourteen - in some cultures they still are.

D: That’s true.

B: So you would give these young people this extended time to study. That’s a product of the industrial revolution. Child slavery, child-working laws all changing – where kids would be put into factories - so it’s a relatively new phenomenon. I think the term teenager came 1920’s / 1930’s. Some anthropologists say James Dean was the de facto first teenager. Rebel without a cause right, the birth of the teen years.

A thing that I really find interesting is who’s the father of all lies?

D: Well Satan.

B: Yes! Well have you noticed kids are very happy with the knock off stuff eh?
When you got a knock off purse or the knock off Rolex or the knock off… That is a phony Louis Vuitton purse, a phony Rolex - It’s a lie. Or the knock off Tommy Hilfiger stuff- like I just – I especially find girls – like everyone’s got this knock off Louis Vuitton stuff – like it’s a lie Louis Vuitton purse. And it’s like I can’t afford it but I still want it.
And then credit oh boy! That’s another thing right – indentured slavery. Indentured slavery - how free are the parents to give these kids cell phones – Holy smokes! Cell phone bills, Internet bills- what the heck is that?

D: How do you deal with that do you think?

B: Look at the United States talk about evil – like that’s destroyed the country. It’s destroying the country – like people their homes. The fact that people were given these monster homes with zero down payment, no equity and now people are just mailing their keys in. Two million more people are expected to lose their homes this year. Think of that. Just mailing their keys in – like we can’t afford our house – like the lifestyle that’s being presented to us we can’t afford it.

D: Do you think there’s some you know - truth in some of the accusations that the East is making against us in that regard?

B: What’s that?

D: You know – not to excuse the way they deal with it – cause I foresee – I see a lot of truth in the fundamental basis of the argument that Islam – or certain sects in Islam – have against the west- because if you do look at world history and you do look at the non-western part of the world their life is very different than ours. I mean if you look at our history and we are Catholic and Christian – you know North America and Europe are Catholic and Christian countries of origin and at one point our outlook on sexuality- outlook on material things was not much different. You see some justification in the accusation of sin and evil there?

B: Yeah. Well I mean the Muslim world isn’t exempt from sin right.

D: Ooh no, of course not.

B: But I think you know that fornication and adultery is just as rampant there in the Muslim world.

D: Yeah cause I do – in that particular regard do think that they have a point with Hollywood.

B: No like yeah – on so many levels. I look at say the inordinate amount of influence that the church of scientology has you know. I look at who controls really the money in Hollywood and you know – you look at these movies stars and their lifestyles – their promiscuity - the way they look. In fact there’s some people like Angelina Jolie – I think she’s a demon – Michael Jackson – I think he’s a demon – when I see him – I think ‘Oh my God.’ Michael Jackson is just rotting away. But Angelina Jolie I have that feeling – you know she wore that capsule of Billy Bob Thorton’s blood around her neck and you know like ‘What’s up with that?’

D: How do you see that affecting the students?

B: But at the same time- in the midst of the evil there I think there is some good that does come out of it.

D: How influential is that in terms of the students lives?

B: I think Hollywood less. Video games way more. Grand Theft Auto Four – its just people lined up to buy it – huge line ups – and the violence – men – in Grand Theft Auto four kicking hookers – kicking them – like you can kick the hooker under your car – like that’s really decent eh? I don’t care what age you are – hookers and kicking them under the car – capping people – like? So like movies too – like I would say the movie – I was asking just to see how many people saw Harold and Kumar last weekend- a few kids went – 21 a lot of kids went to see – at Xavier there would be - on a big release weekend a lot of kids that would go – you’d be able to connect with a lot of kids on the Monday if you talked about Harold and Kumar. I think the last movie that – Prom Night – here very few kids went to see that – my daughter went – was Jack Ass – that was the last time that I had with kids – “Oh oh oh we saw it sir. It was awesome. I mean it was great. It was the greatest” - Jack ass.

D: Now when you mention – now I don’t want to get into a political war here – put you in any compromising situations – you know – you mentioned some differences between the two schools you’ve been at – without getting into any specifics – would you say it’s the size of the school or the leaders in the school? What makes that difference between –cause it sounds like the school that you’re in (Saint Paul’s) there’s a tendency to a much more Catholic approach to life.

B: Yeah I think its - good question – size of the school has a lot to do with it. The demographics have a lot to do with it. This is an old part of Mississauga and it’s a poor part of Mississauga. So the size definitely. The fact that there’s so many public schools near by - like at Xavier in your day there was no public school near by – so kids who went to Fairwinds they would just walk across the field to go to Xavier right – so Fairwinds was our biggest feeder school. So now I think with Rick Hansen’s in there and there’s talk of them opening another school there I think as more of the kids go. Here we’ve got Cawthra Park next door, we have Gordon Grayden around the corner so we tend to have – I would say that probably this school is ninety-five per cent Catholic. And so that has a big effect. The kids have the Catholic imagination and when I say Catholic imagination they have the Catholic culture right. It’s hard circuited, hard wired into them. So Christmas means something right. Easter means something right. Like there is something to build on. Among the Muslim kids -Ramadan (referring to Xavier) they would want to have a prayer room for Ramadan - and I would say well – and then you would have fifty/ sixty kids praying Ramadan – you know if I prayed the rosary in the chapel maybe you’d have half a dozen kids show up right. So that had a lot to do with it. I think community is inversely proportional to the size. I don’t know large community if that’s – is that like an oxymoron?

D: No it’s been mentioned by Benedict and formerly Ratzinger in many of his works over the last twenty years that the size in community does have certain negative connotations on the Church. Even within certain prayer groups – you know you get to big and you lose your Catholic focus.

Is there or do you have in your seasoning as a chaplain –what would you –for people who are – maybe feel that calling towards that or new chaplains in ‘the system’ – what kind of words of encouragement or experience- words of wisdom and knowledge would you give to them in their journey – cause that’s their calling and that’s their means of santification.

B: Well I think it was Archbishop Collins who may have been quoting Benedict – I don’t know – but just recently I heard him say that he quoted someone as saying that the second millennium – from 1000 to 2000 was the period of the religious order. It was the era of the religious order and this - that I guess that the beginning of the third millennium not that this will be the era of the laity right. So I would really say to we lay people that the Church is going to need us to assume our role. In that role - recognizing and respecting - the role of the priest and bishop and teaching – the magisterial. We are going to have to assume more of the day to day responsibilities of pastoral care. Whether visiting people in hospitals, visiting elderly – our population is going to age. It is aging right now. And then of course in the education. I think we’re in the land of milk and honey right now. So this is the era of affluence in Catholic education in Ontario. With God’s grace it will continue. If not we will just have to respond with the Holy Spirit guiding us. Great opportunities – like when I was your age – when I was in high school I would have never thought that a lay person could be involved in high school ministry. I would never even thought it and so likewise in the mind of God are all these vocations that are going to pop out of the – literally out of the wood work – and those who listen to the call will fill those jobs. So I think its going to be a very exciting time. I look forward to the next Pope after Benedict the 16th to see what will happen. I don’t think things will change all that much but who knows. I know in the East there’s the job of Catechist. You know we have deacon here but Catechist is quite a phenomenon and perhaps that could be expanded to North American where the Catechists would go- the priests would celebrate the Mass – but the Catechist can help baptize and the Catechist goes and kind of sets things up – for the priest – the itinerant priest who comes.

Then there is always the possibility like with John Paul the Second – when he came – when he came to Toronto - there were vocations – after he left. Mother Theresa would go to Vietnam and on one visit and she would have two or three hundred who wanted to join the missionaries of Charity. Maybe the East now will continue – they’ll come back to re-evangelize us – wouldn’t that be beautiful. That could be the great gift of the missionaries of the people who went to the East is that they planted the seeds that would ultimately lead to our re-evangelization here in the West right. People like Francis Xavier so.

D: Awesome. So you have any last minute words. You’re probably going to have a lot of people interested in hearing – listening to what you’ve had to say – just with your contacts – you said with eight thousand students

B: Just graduates right.

D: You know people who are entering their 30’s and up now?

B: Well I would say that my years at Xavier were a tremendous blessing and leaving Xavier was a very difficult thing. There were lots of factors that went into it. But coming here to Saint Paul’s is a different – I would say that the kids here at Saint Paul’s are so lucky – they are so lucky! The kids up at Xavier I think – yeah they have – it’s a lot harder to be a kid up there – no question. Here every kid is known. The kids who are missing – like the absentee list is like one page – every teacher knows. I take three kids to Doctor Simone’s and on the Monday like “Did so and so go?” I’m just bombarded. “Are you sure they were there?” At Xavier you could take thirty or forty kids out of that school and no one would know. No one would care. How do you keep track of twenty-two hundred people? How do you keep track? You know I can’t imagine the pain that some kids were living with and it just wasn’t known. Well you yourself – you know – high school – the later years – was a real struggle for you.

D: And I think that was partially Mississauga was a very different community at that time. You know there’s a lot of immigration – clashing.

B: I had a student one time Dan – so he played football - he hurt his arm – So I take him to square one and we go into Sears – cause I’m thinking there’s a bedding department there we can get some bedding foam. I’m walking through the parking lot – bought ten steps behind me so I’m thinking it’s not cool to be walking with me. So he’s walking – so I walk into Sears I open the door – walk down the aisle – I turn to see if he’s coming – he’s not there. So I back up – I go – and outside two security guards had him questioning him off to the side. I go “ What’d you do? Officers what’s the problem?” “Oh is he with you?” “Yeah I’m the Chaplain” “Oh if he’s with you he can go in” But I went back to the school and I found out that Square One they don’t have to give you a reason eh. They can trespass you – they don’t even have to – if they don’t like the way you look – they don’t even have to give you a reason.

D: Well you’ve even heard about that in the United States now – there’s – anti teenager policies in place now. I was reading something about that recently – the specifics but

B: So yeah I got to thinking - this is considered the City Center of Mississauga. It’s the City Center and they can trespass you because it’s private property. I’m thinking at least in Toronto you know you can go and hang out and you know - that just strikes me as really oppressive that you - this is Square One – but its private – its all owned – and I realize this is really a very strangely designed – you’re a citizen hear but anyway. And the cul-de-sac is beautiful to live on. But how good is that in getting to know maybe your immediate neighbors but

D: Well we have no relations with the people on our street. That’s the way it’s always been.

B: Now on our street we know everybody. We shovel each other’s drive when there’s snow. We got ten-foot sidewalks. We know everybody.

D: Interesting point. Very interesting point. Lack of understanding of true community.

B: It’s the car and the mall. Monsignor DeSouza at his church – he’s hit on a couple of things eh – gotta say - whether he’s consciously done this or not. But I think we have to rethink Sunday.

D: that’s been mentioned by a number of people including some Chaplains that I’ve spoken to – have brought that up before- that’s interesting.

B: What’s that? In terms of the mass times and that?

D: Well not even – well yeah – and I have a bit of questioning about this Sunday night Mass – you know Saturday is a different story – but the whole concept of the Sabbath.
It’s funny I’m actually reading a – there’s a new book out by Pope Benedict – it’s a collection of – I think – of his thesis’s and stuff like that – and one of the – I think someone threw it together in a volume – but one of the sections is The Sabbath and he is talking about what the Sabbath was and relearning what that is – I’ve heard that mentioned before.

B: I think we have to start having the Sunday afternoon Mass. I think we have to. I would agree Sunday nine o’clock or ten o’clock like what are you doing there? But

D: Well you’re just fitting it in at the last minute.

B: but there are people who do have to work now right and not as of – not of their own will. And I do know at Xavier has a 1:30 Mass and a lot of teenagers go – a lot – hormonally – they want to sleep.

D: Oh definitely. But the question there is what were they doing the night before?

B: Yeah

D: And you know it’s extended into the twenties now yeah – the weekend millionaire’s. (Laughs)
Definitely - well this has been great.

B: Dan it’s been wonderful.

        

Daniel : Okay So Brian Finamore you're chaplain, we're chaplain at the high school I attended many years ago.  (Now at St. Paul's) What would you describe as the vocation of a chaplain? or how would you describe the job or the role as a chaplain? Within the catholic school board?

Brian : It's interesting it's a relatively new position having lay people performing a job that is pastoral.  As a high school chaplain in the past the job was filled and I think ideally should be filled with an ordained priest.  There's really - I've often said that an ordained priest or even a nun if they were wearing their habit - in the school - the sacramental presence of their being, they would get more work done sitting in the cafeteria drinking a coffee than I could running around the city of Mississauga trying to help organize things.

There's really - I think - that - that would be the ideal - would be to have ordained and I think that the code of canon law actually stipulates that a chaplain are in fact to be priests.  However in 1985 - the historical - we're very fortunate here in Ontario, Catholic schools had full funding extended to include grade 11, 12, and 13 at the time.  And as a result of that Catholic schools just expanded.   Where once catholic high schools were really built, operated, maintained cared for by religious communities now they're built, maintained, cared for by the government and just in the rush I think to fill the schools we expanded very very quickly.  In order to accommodate the student enrollment they decided that they would create this position.  Now just recently it was known as a Chaplaincy Team Leader - the position in high schools - just a year ago the Ontario Catholic bishops met to come up with a formal title that they could live with.  And our official title is Chaplaincy Leader.  So we do many of the functions - organizational functions that is of a Chaplain. We're not ordained so we're limited as to -  we can certainly celebrate the sacraments but only as laity.   We need to include an ordained priest in our ministry.  And it's kind of neat eh!  I like the fact that our title suggests that we're not isolated in an island, that we are to be coordinators in bringing the gospel message.  Okay that's just some - as to the official title - so I'm a Chaplaincy Leader. 

What's my job in the school?  Its one of planning, organizing the school, making sure that the school is in tune with the Church year - the Church calendar year, making sure that the seasons of the Church are adequately reflected in the school.  Like you saw yourself that we put the statue of Mary out in the chapel. (Interview was done in May)  Organizing the sacramental celebration for students in the school.  At this school we're very lucky the students have the opportunity to receive the sacrament of reconciliation twice a year.  I'm able to get priests to come in since it's a smaller school.  We organize masses - celebration of the Eucharist.  We had our Easter mass this morning actually at St Dominic's Church, so we walked across the street.  So organizing that and coordinating that in a school and in a institution requires a little bit of finesse.  Teachers have their own agendas too.  And with the four year high school now, teachers are under  a great deal of stress for curriculum and making sure that the kids are ready for the different provincial standardized tests that the kids have to write.  So just to coordinate, to give and take of daily life. 

Our school board also - very - you know they've been leaders.  In the time I've been involved in high school campus ministry or high school Chaplaincy, they insist that students spend at least one day on a retreat.  And that it be done at  a classroom level at the very least.  And so just coordinating religion class retreats. Some schools do them with home room classes. That's a task.  Then I try my very very best.  We have a pip program here and pip is a program for - in our school - for autistic kids.  And I work very hard with the teachers, the very gifted and talented teachers that are there, trying to involve those students and integrate them into the school.  And then you know community service and community outreach.  You remember when you were at Xavier - St Francis Xavier - that's a very big - that's a passion of mine - is looking for Jesus among the most vulnerable in society.  So I spend a lot of time exposing the kids to Jesus in the form of the least, as Jesus said 'whatever you do to the least of my sisters and brothers you do to me.'

So I work very closely with Dr Andrew Simone.  It's been 18 or 19 years  I've been there and I'll be there tomorrow morning with some students - bringing them there. 

Daniel : You’re still doing that program too?

Brian : Yeah! 

Daniel :  It's funny my grandparents were good friends with Dr Simone.  They were - I don't know if he was part of that - but they were third order Franciscans. 

Brian : Yes he definitely is! What’s their last name?

Daniel : Bullock.  Yeah he’d know my grandparents, Rita and Bert. Yeah my uncle is Chaplain up in Penatang, Pat Bullock

Brian : Okay

Daniel : You might know him. Very charismatic.

Brian : Is he at the prison there?

Daniel : Ha, no he’s at the - what’s the high school there in midland? I can’t remember now.

But he was head of the religion department and he’s currently the Chaplain now.

Brian : Well the Nativity of our Lord Prayer Group is what - you know Jesus really working through that community is what really started everything - you know brought about the change in Joan and Andrew’s life so - Yeah the Holy Spirit. 

Daniel : So tell me a bit about you’re story. How’d you come to Chaplaincy?  Cause as I understand you we’re heading towards being a man of the clothe.  So is that - it’s a true story? 

Brian : Yeah you know - it’s not an unusual story, but it’s my story. So it’s kind of - but I think that John Paul the Second had a profound impact in my life.  And I was working in the hotel business right.  I was working at the four seasons hotel.  I had just left that hotel to start a job at the Sutton place hotel.  And when I switched it was august of 1984 and when we we’re getting ready, we hosted the papal tour.  And actually our hotel prepared the food for the pope and he stayed at Cardinal Carter’s home.  But we had 22 bishops, 11 cardinals  living in the hotel during his stay.  And I recall just going down Saint Joseph’s  street at Saint Michael’s college and just standing right on this - Saint Mike’s campus as the pope - in the pope mobile - came down avenue road and then down University - so I’m right at Queens Park circle and as he came by - the pope mobile - it was just so beautiful you know I - I guess it was Saint Therese would call the surge of the heart right.  Just so it started after the Pope and seeing the bishops and the cardinals and that in the hotel - they were really very very nice men. 

Daniel : So did you meet Cardinal Carter?

Brian : Met many times. Even at that time Cardinal Carter had the stroke so he was  slowing down.  It’s interesting I worked in the hotel business.  I worked in room service and the word deacon actually - deaconia means waiter.  So I was an unofficial waiter and when I was at the seminary after the Pope had come I start going to mass everyday.  Saint Basil’s church was right across the street from the Hotel.  So going to mass everyday and then I switched jobs again.  I went to work at Lotel which was a brand new hotel down at the convention center beneath the CN Tower.  And I hired this young kid Michael O’Sullivan.  And Michael told me about his uncle, his uncle was Shawn O’Sullivan, and at the time he was director of vocations for the archdiocese of Toronto, doing what Fr Liborio does now.  So he had just put together a campaign with Jesus on a cross - a billboard campaign - and it was Jesus hanging on the cross and the caption was dare to be a priest like me.  So I decided, I went and met with Shawn - Fr Shawn - at Serra house - invited me to live at Serra house for  a year - which I did.

Daniel : So you did that too.

Brian : Then I went to St Augustine’s.  After a year at St Augustine’s I really felt - felt very lonely.  With my spiritual director - they told me maybe priesthood may not be for me. 

So what I did was move out of the seminary and I continued, I studied on my own.  I had a little rooming house in Toronto and I completed my studies while I was there.  I did it thinking that maybe I’d go back to St Augustine’s and possibly be ordained.  

Then I met my wife or my girlfriend Sylvia and she was at least very supportive of me finishing the theology.  And then when I finished the theology I went to an employment head hunting company and they found me a job in about a week.  It was very quick but it went straight back to the Sutton Place Hotel. 

Daniel : Oh really that’s interesting.

Brian : And so I go back to the Sutton Place and I think – thought - "you know lord you took me for a few years and you put me right back.  You didn’t hurt me you just" – I felt – and in the mean time what was funny was a number of my friends – we all went to the seminary together;  Fr John Duffy – he was an employee of mine – I hired him at Lotel.  And when I went to Serra house to see Father Shawn he came to Serra House at the same time.  And he’s a priest now.  And Jim McManamy - Fr Jim McManamy – what I think what ended up happening was – I was an instrument of the Lord in bringing some other guys there – right.  Who knows?  So then working at the Sutton place and then I get a phone call about this position – it was described to me as campus ministry.  So I went out for the interview and they hired me.  And that was in 1989 – twenty years ago next year.  And I’ve just had an unbelievable time.  So yeah - I really know that you commit yourself to Jesus – you know the letting go – Jesus totally – like we really have nothing to worry about.  Jesus will take care of us.  And I’ve just met some of the greatest people.  And I can certainly talk for hours and hours about the experience at Saint Augustine’s, Serra House – yeah and I never would have believed that this would have been possible to be able to work with young people and share their life – grow with them and become a link to their families.  And even like you Daniel – you know nine or ten years later – we can get caught up so quickly – we’re such good friends. 

Daniel : So what do you see as some of the great joys of being a chaplain within the high schools here?

Brian : Well I think the great joys would be those light bulb moments – and they happen all the time – where kids all of a sudden make the connection.  At first that they are loved by Jesus and the forgiveness moment.  When the students need to seek forgiveness and then ask for forgiveness - that’s very powerful.  Great joys of seeing kids graduate.  I can never get tired of that.  You know at Xavier when there’s four or five hundred kids graduate that’s a long long night. 

Daniel : Yeah I can imagine

Brian : You know just seeing the joy and just seeing in parents too – how much – they want so much for their kids - that love that they have.  They want the very very best for their kids.  And sometimes parents they do crazy things – but the fact- you just look into their eyes – and you know that there’s so much love there.  That’s very very rewarding.  Anywhere I go now – anywhere I go – with working at Xavier – there’s like 8 or 9 thousand graduates out there – and to see the kids.

Daniel : Do you find that you run into a lot of old high school students?

Brian : Oh yeah – its very very beautiful – you know living in Toronto as I do – you know walking down the street – I saw a young boy over at Tim Horton’s a couple of minutes ago – you know I went to pick the coffee up – he’s an Xavier graduate.  And we were talking there.  Just anywhere you go.  It’s very very joyful. 

Daniel : Amazing eh – that’s awesome.   What do you think is one of the greatest challenges right now facing the high school students?

Brian :Well I think the – well there are many right – you know similar to when you were in high school the consumer thinking that you’re not good unless you have this and you’re not good unless you have that.  I think the greatest challenge facing the young people right now – I would say the environment, the planet – you know personally - the writing is on the wall.  The price of gasoline is you know.  Mississauga we’re living in a community that is created for the automobile.  How are kids going to function without cars?  Just in the news yesterday General Motors, in Oshawa are letting a thousand go – or almost a thousand workers.  They’ll restructure some how and maybe they’ll make clean cars – but amongst students there’s great concern for the planet – there’s great concern for the environment – is global warming a reality ? –

Daniel : The age ol' debate.

Brian : And we also have the food shortage – which I don’t believe is real.  I really don’t believe – I think it’s -  you know there are powerful forces right - that want to tell people not to have children.   There are powerful forces that want to tell people to- you know - abort.  So to bring the good news – I think the kids though – my generation – my way of thinking - I’m not able to comprehend what the futures going to be like – cause I’m in many respects a dinosaur - I’m still a relative product of the industrial revolution.  But you guys are going to be changing jobs so frequently – changing careers-very very frequently.  So those are concerns that I think that young people are facing.  Book learning isn’t really valued any more-  book learning- I listened to an interview with TJ Ford earlier and they asked – Chuck Swirsky asked him what do you think about the stuff that you read about yourself in the paper – I mean about being a selfish player.  And he goes well I don’t read the papers.  And I don’t think he was just being flippant that ‘I don’t read the sports paper’.  I just think he doesn’t read the papers. 

Daniel : Its understandable considering a lot of the content that’s in it.

So in this current culture that we’re in – some would say sort of a culture crisis – where I guess you could say life is presented as a big party – and you know the whole sex and drugs – a lot of movies and contents- you know these things are presented as recreational activities.  Or the whole plan for the weekend is try to ‘get some’ – or  try to get drunk –  you know party it up.  How do you see your role affecting the culture within the high schools and with the students?  Or how you see the vocation of a chaplain in this culture war – and how do you engage that with the students?

Brian : Well I just try to model responsible adulthood.  And I try to model in my life as much as I can what I think a responsible father – man should be like.  So the way I interact with female staff.  The way I interact with female students.  The way I respect authority.  You know the vice principal or the principal, Father Noel, Father Norm, Father Rudy next door.  The way I try to cooperate – the way I try to listen.  I try to walk lightly and try to be a joyful person.  I try to model an alternative.  Now I think young people can immediately identify a hypocrite.  So there’s a spiritual dimension to young people.  And I think the greatest insult that a young person can give an adult is to call them a hypocrite.  So everything from what kind of car you drive – don’t tell me if you’re driving a Silverado around right.  The kind of car that you drive – to the kind of clothes you wear.  All of that I think the kids are able to process it and I think they can tell if it’s authentic or if it’s just a crock of –

So now to combat the culture it’s huge.  It’s huge!  And then I think you know to pray for the kids too right because part of the vocation of a chaplain is to pray for the school.  Pray for the kids – be an agent of prayer.  So now as for the kids – kids are a little bit more sophisticated consumers of the culture than what we were.  When it comes to the advertising and that and buying I think that’s become quite sophisticated.  But I think in terms of the lifestyle and that – I think that there’s probably no more people having premarital sex today per capita than there were in your time or than there were in my time. 

Daniel : Well in some ways that’s good news. 

Brian : So yeah – I mean even in our scriptures there was adultery – there were a lot of things – what I think is really hard is that there aren’t enough positive role models in kids lives.  Like families aren’t very stable.  Like I had a little girl say to me one time – she couldn’t sleep at night – And I said to her – she said because her mom has boyfriends over and they’re making noise all night.  So I think the actions of that mother – like that’s off the rictor scale compared to anything she’d see on ER or whatever right.

Daniel : And that’s interesting – that’s one of the questions I was going to ask you.  you obviously have a lot of interactions with families and certain situations with families – whether it be families with certain challenges cause of the kids or cause of the parents or even broken families – step families – how does your job as chaplain influence your family –how does your family influence the job and in dealing with these situations – how important do you see a stable family – do you have advice for families or people in the same field as you or students who are in irregular situations in families – do you have any words of advice or encouragement or any thoughts on that. 

Brian : You know its funny – when I was with Mother Theresa – Mother Theresa tried to give me this Holy Card.  And I looked at it and it was a picture of the Holy Family – Mary and Joseph – today is actually the Feast of St Joseph the worker – and it was little Jesus with His hands up and Mary and Joseph were behind Him.  Then the sister that was with mother – she took the card out of my hard – I was going to keep it – and she said “Mother that’s not yours – you can’t give that away – that’s not yours.”  But clearly below - I didn’t get to keep the card- but the message right – the Holy Family.  It mustn’t have been easy.  I enjoyed the film The Nativity last year – I don’t know if you had a chance to see it.  I saw a bit of the turmoil – it was an interesting perspective – of Mary and Joseph – what they went through – and you know the Holy Family – their life was difficult – and so again I think that – you know its cliché – But the family that prays together stays together.  It’s true – it’s true – it is a cliché – but I know what I see in my own life and what I see here in school.   Sometimes I go home and I’m exhausted.  Sometimes you can be with a person – and I know you’ve had this experience before Daniel – where one person can drain you so much.  And then so how do you be present to your own kids right.

(Please be advised that Somc Media does not currently endorse the film - The Nativity - due to theological errors contained in the film.  If you watch the film please do so with caution.  There are anti-Catholic and heretical themes surrounding the Dogma of the Immaculate Conception contained within the movie. Whether these elements are intentional on the directors part or not is for Our Lord to judge.)      

Daniel : Do you find there is a conflict sometimes there – is it - interfere at times?

Brian : Well sometimes I just want to go home to bed and that’s not being just.  My primary responsibility is to my own family.  So I mean and in the past – and that certainly had a lot to with or part of the reason why I left Saint Francis Xavier.  It was part of the equation.  My own kids were at the age where they wanted to do things with me.  My daughter now is in grade 9 and she doesn’t want to do anything with me anymore.  I got a funny story – my daughter went to see Prom Night – with her friends – so she goes and then she phones me "Daddy can you come pick me up the movies over – leave home in twenty minutes – not now twenty minutes.”  She wanted to talk right.  So I get in the car twenty minutes later – I’m three quarters of the way to the theater on Islington – Islington and Queensway – and I look and I’m wearing my slippers.  Ohhhhhhh (sighs) I thought I can’t – I’m not going to go home – but I can’t get out of the car – if I go into the theater looking for my daughter –wearing my plaid slippers – I’m going to look like Ned Flanders right –so

Daniel : Yeah you don’t want to embarrass a teenager –

Brian :Yeah - but I think what happens is – working in a high school – I’m a little sensitive – like I think some parents "What’s wrong?" Innocently – I’m going to look for my – and that would be – for a kid – for their dad to come with their slippers on – and there was snow on the ground – its still cold – like what is your dad? 

Daniel : What’s he thinking? 

Brian :Yeah!  So I think in some respects I don’t sweat a lot of the small stuff – right

When I sit with a girl or we had a young boy  he got suspended for five days – I said what’s going on- And then he just started crying “Mr. Finamore I have a broken heart.”  He’s sobbing. “He liked this girl since grade 8 and he didn’t know – he was afraid to talk to her – but she’s got another boyfriend now – and so when I hear stories like that – or I hear the stories of the girls who come in and they have no friends – and nobody likes them.  “Everybody hates me Mr. Finamore.  Everybody hates me.”  So if some nights I see my daughters on MSN a little longer I’m at least grateful she has friends right.  So I think in some respects it helps me a little bit.  Also its like a person who doesn’t go out at night maybe more afraid of the dark than need be - if you go out the odd time

Conversely I hear the horror stories too – and that scares me.  I hear kids – two kids at Xavier got shot.  I was in the hospital with one of the boys when the bullet fell out.  It fell out of his body right.  So these guys did everything right.  They had the party – somebody text – these strangers show up at the door – want in – he said no my mom’s upstairs sleeping – mother was – ‘I don’t know – I can’t let you into my house’ - one of the kids pulled out a gun and shot him.  So when I hear that I also know what dangers the kids also face right.  That makes me very very -  but yeah so obviously Mother Theresa when she gave me the holy card –like pray to the Holy Family.  Ask for Mary’s help for her intercession and Saint Joseph right.  And then ultimately in all of it – someone once said in every situation in life – everything – we should be able to see the death and resurrection of Jesus - in every situation.

Daniel : That’s a really interesting way of looking at – at the challenges of life.  So you mentioned the rosary.  Do you find – or try and encourage and promote a lot of devotion to the rosary?  Even with the staff or with the students.  Do you find there’s a reluctance at times?

Brian : Well no, among the kids down here the rosary is a huge – is a huge form of prayer.  Down here there’s lot of Polish kids, lots of Portuguese kids, Slovenian kids

Daniel : So the real Catholics laughs

Brian : Well yeah. So these kids - they are going kids too– I have to say I graduated from the Catholic school system and I would be about your dad’s age-your mom and dad’s age - cause I know both your parents.  I graduated and I knew - like the rosary; one Our Father, ten Hail Mary’s.  But the Hail Holy Queen all the – like how to really say it – the Fatima decade prayer – I had never said the complete rosary. And I graduated from the Catholic school system.  And when I started to pray the rosary – when I was maybe about twenty two / twenty three years old.  It changed my life.  It totally changed my life. 

Daniel :  In what sense would you say?

Brian : Well first of all I felt – okay – even through out the course of the day right – I remember working in the Hotels and that right – and there’d be times where I’d be too tired to pray – and I would pray the rosary everyday and just holding the rosary would give me a sense of peace and calm.  I remember I gave Fr John Duffy – now – we gave rosary beads to this receiver – in the hotels – and he maybe suffered from autism – and we didn’t tell him that they were glow in the dark rosary beads – and as a matter of fact it never even crossed our minds either – well – he came to work and he was just – ‘the miracle – my rosary beads’

Daniel : (laughs) Isn’t that funny!

Brian : Yeah they were glow in the dark beads.  Now I work with Radio Maria – don’t know if you’re familiar

Daniel : Yeah definitely

Brian : We go – we have a monthly show there – so we go pray the rosary – on the English Channel.  Now I have to tell you this too – I got maybe five thousand pairs of rosary beads – in the chapel I give the kids rosary beads.  What I found out that in Toronto – in the inner city – the gangs are wearing rosary beads – they wear the red ones for the Bloods – and the blue ones for the Crips – so I got green ones for the school

Daniel : Yeah I had heard something about that in the States  - that a lot of the kids are wearing that as a symbol of protection of some sort – and you even see it sort of in the Catholics in their cars but – and I remember one of the nuns was talking about it.  I can’t remember from which group – saying that you know – but do people ‘really understand the significance or the real meaning behind the rosary?’

Brian : No.  And you know the luminous mysteries too.  I think for me at my age were a great gift too.  To kind of introduce the five – it’s just a great gift to have the luminous mysteries.  Having been to the Holy Land too – and having been into the Jordan – having been in Cana –Mount Thabor – to see where the transfiguration – that was a great gift to me – to be able to say – so when I meditate on those its really really good.

Daniel : Brings it more close to home

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Brian : You ever been to the holy land ?

Daniel : Not yet. 

Brian : You have to go

Daniel : We’ll get there sooner or later. 

Brian : Daniel you would love it. Everyone should – once in their life should go

Daniel : Yeah it’s interesting it use to be a regular place of pilgrimage – almost like the Muslims go to Mecca – until – well history had other  ways.  So where does the Eucharist come into your whole vocation?  How do you incorporate that into the school?  Do you guys have Eucharistic adoration here at the school ever? 

Brian : We do it once a year on Holy Thursday.  The classes are scheduled to come down – so the Blessed Sacrament is not left alone at all.  Now in my own life it was praying before the Blessed Sacrament – at an exposition where Jesus spoke to me.  And the message it was as clear as “If you love me you will follow me.”

I just felt – so totally compelled – that following Monday I resigned from my job and made plans to enter the seminary – to enter Serra house – I just felt –so the real presence –

Now as for in the school it sometimes can be a challenge right – is - can be a challenge because Jesus is present in there and to make sure that remains a place of prayer.  Now the teachers bring their classes down a lot and I think the proximity of where the chapel is – at Xavier the chapel was on the second floor – it was often forgotten.  But these chapels – like last week – or over the past two weeks we’ve had two parents die – okay so – one was in a real bad car accident – that chapel in there – the carpet has really been soaked with the tears of kids.   I think Jesus in the tabernacle – existentially and metaphyscially kids – we have the catholic mind – catholic imagination – we know when the candle is lit – Jesus is there.  

Daniel : Do you find that there’s a lot of kids that don’t grasp that? Or haven’t been maybe properly catechized? What sense do you get of the students general understanding of that (the real presence) within their own lives?

Brian :Yeah I would say that if more people understood and could grasp the significance – like we have people driving to Marmora.  Well you don’t have to drive to Marmora you can just go to your Church and Jesus is there.  Like how many Churches do you drive by to get to Marmora? Right.  Even the Oratory (Montreal)  or whatever.  So if we really really grasp that (true presence) and I think that – even among priests eh? It’s a strange – I know the Eucharistic Congress is coming up – I’d like to see even the way some Churches are designed now – you know with this little room off to the side somewhere – and you can be in a Church – you know – I just don’t what they’re thinking.  I guess ‘liturgically’ its correct – but I don’t know? (shrugging)

Daniel : Yeah well I think there’s a lot of – you know they say that with every council there’s been a lot of shaky – or some people have called – ‘Murky waters’ – after wards.  Yeah you know – we’re a Church in transition – is the way I like to look at it.  We’re still trying to understand and deal with a lot of the cultural revolutions that have happened in the last 40 years or so. 

Brian : Often I know myself – right – I’m always torn- ‘Brian the Eucharist is the spiritual food’ – right!  It’s Jesus coming right in - into our hearts.  But then there’s also the communion element.  Are you in communion with us (Catholics)? And when I see the people line up to go to communion  and I see absolutely no line to go to confession.  Like there use to be a beauty – symmetry to that right.  Its almost like sin doesn’t exist – because you don’t go get communion – like sin (personal) removes us from the communion right!

And then I think you know ‘Brian it’s Jesus - spiritual food – and people need.’  I’m often - like I use to see the line ups at confession and use to think – because if you haven’t gone to confession at least in a year you weren’t to receive.  And if you eat – you’re suppose to fast for an hour. 

Daniel : Yeah it’s actually one of the articles that will be coming up – is talking about fasting – which is something that a lot of people don’t know – the fasting policies weren’t changed by Vatican II.  Even the Friday abstinence – its interesting – I don’t want to get too much into it – but its still of day of fasting really.  You know they’ve provided norms – taking into consideration the current culture – that if you can’t abstain from meat (on Fridays) you’re to make an alternative form of fasting.  But it’s interesting because there has been a lot of loss in traditions.  I guess – or a loss in the firm understanding of the faith and you probably do see some of that even within the school board itself.  You know when we had talked on the phone you had mentioned that the diocese (correction) or the school board in Ottawa –

Brian :Yeah.  There’s no kids there

Daniel : Involved in the pro-life movement you were saying. Which is kind of like – how does that happen? 

Brian : Yeah I think that would make an interesting article.

Daniel : So have you always been active in the Pro-life movement?  Is this something newer?

Brian : No I mean I’ve always been active.  One of the pope’s biographers – two or three years ago – he actually spoke at a conference with the National Pro-life and he was one of John Paul the second’s biographers – and he said that the pope had said “that no young person should be confirmed until they had some exposure to the Pro-life movement.”

So what that means – and what the pope – I’m sure- found frustrating – and I saw this reflected at the papal funeral – I don’t know – I was watching – I don’t know (hesitant) – I opened the school up and we watched it on the big jumbotron – John Paul the Second’s funeral – and there was a lot of people that came.  It was really neat and after we had breakfast – kind of celebrated the mass there – I think we had to get in there at five in the morning to watch it.  However you couldn’t see any Canadian people.  Ambrozic was no where to be seen.  Who was prime minister at the time? Paul Martin – was it Paul Martin?  Maybe it was Jean Chretien- anyhow – you couldn’t see.  Tony Blair front row!  George Bush front row!  I think a lot of it had to do with the – at that time we were redefining marriage.  I think the Vatican gave the Canadian delegation the ‘Vatican treatment.’  Because you know we redefined marriage here - that we had a catholic prime minister – Pierre Elliot Trudeau – and John Turner – was the minister of Justice who wrote the abortion legislation.  Since then we’ve had Mulroney, Trudeau, we’ve had Paul Martin, John Turner , Chretien- all these guys are ‘Roman Catholics’ and what have they done? 

Daniel : Do you see a lot of that within the school board itself?  Is there that element of dissent from the teachings?

Brian : Well you know there are teachers who have their own agendas right.  But you know I have to say right that I’ve found  pretty good people – like their heart  is – they don’t always make decisions – like issues like Pro-life – I have never seen a director of education who hasn’t supported me- letters, money.  If you wanted to do anything for the faith – like if you wanted to buy every kid a rosary – like “DO IT!,  Just do it!”  Like I really have encountered good people.  Students have told me that there we’re teachers who weren’t always – you know

Daniel : Best examples:

Brian : Yeah. 

Daniel : But that’s not necessarily a reflection on a teacher with a bad intention. And it’s the same with a priest who celebrates maybe the Eucharist in a certain way.  Or a sister who has the wrong idea of what her authentic vocation is – you know that’s their formation – partially too. 

Brian : For sure. 

Daniel : And human frailty as well. 

Brian : Now again – in 1985 – with full funding – everything happened so fast.  You know we just expanded.  You know to maybe use a secular example – a company expanding before they (have resources) – so it’s really been thirty years – in 2015 - its twenty-five in 2000’s.  I think we’re starting to kind a of get a little bit of a handle on things right.  Like when we expanded – like the formation of principal is crucial – like the principal has to know the story (the Catholic story) – the principal has to be!  I think we’re getting a little better now.  But in the early going – like there were no principals.  So the formation is a little bit better.  I mean I see two steps forward, one step back.  Is it perfect? No.  Like the devil is alive- unfortunately right – and the devil will do whatever he can to destroy.  But I’ve seen some really wonderful – I’m encouraged more than I’m discouraged. 

Check back for the Second part to this discussion with High School Chaplaincy Leader Brian Finamore March 12^th 09.

        

Please be advised that the discussion with Brian Finamore will be released Friday February 27th 09.
We wish you a prayerful week as we begin our journey into Lent. 
Daniel Blodgett

        

Download | Duration: 01:15:02

        

Discussion with Father Liborio the Vocations Director for the Archdiocese of Toronto Part II
(Please note this is a transcript of the 2nd part of the talk)

                               


Daniel : How do you – in what other ways do you think we can foster the promotion of more vocations? I mean, I know in my own experience, in my own journey I did experience that deep drawing to the Eucharist and I think that’s how I kind of got back into learning a lot about the faith myself. Cause from that point I started reading a lot of the writings of John Paul and Cardinal Ratzinger and learning how to defend the faith from there – cause I was constantly encountering people – not necessarily opposed – but maybe misunderstood certain aspects or they were searching from the outside. Because there is a difference that occurs in a person who is – you notice something that changes – in a person who is deeply devoted to the Eucharist. But outside of that – how do you – for the lay people – even the Catholics at church – what other ways do you think there are - for even catholic business’s or even media agencies – what other ways do you think we could help bring awareness to vocations and the reality that you know its okay to think that you may be a priest and not be ashamed.

Father : Yeah, well there’s – you mentioned that you didn’t believe that there’s a crisis in vocations. I would agree with you. I think there is rather a crisis of response. And why that happens is either because the individual is not listening to the voice of God for them to respond because there’s too much noise in the world and we’re not quieting down as we should. But I think that all of us need to know that we have a role to play in this. It’s not just the priest. The priest is not the one who is going to create another priest to celebrate the mass the following Sunday or twenty years from now. Rather it’s the people have to realize that we have to call people for within our own - priests, religious brothers or sisters. So that means that people that they also shouldn’t be afraid to tap people on the shoulder. They shouldn’t be afraid to pass on the faith to their children. That families shouldn’t be afraid to pray together - families shouldn’t be afraid to talk about the joys of religious life – the joys of priesthood. That the media should focus not so much on the crisis – because the media can do so much – because that can get a lot of attention but rather focus on the joy - what happens in the life of a priest. It’d be great to talk to priests and say you know why did you want to be a priest? Why do you still want to be a priest? – its because of this …. And what do you think you’re doing as a priest? What kind of joys are you experiencing? To be able to say I’m experiencing joys because I went to talk to Mrs. O’Leary in the hospital and she was dying and before she was dying I was able to comfort her and remind her that in faith we believe that there is something beyond death. Or I was able to be with Mr. and Mrs. Smith while they’re bringing their baby for baptism. And I was able to see their joy in passing on that faith to their child. And be able to encounter Mr. and Mrs. Brown who are going to get married. And I was there at their wedding experiencing the sharing of their love and how that love was being solidified by the Church’s sacrament and I was involved in it. To be able to have people realize that a priest can experience moments of grace everyday of their life. That you know high moments are plentiful for the priest. And people need to know that it’s a life of sacrifice, a life of service that brings much much joy. So we can look at the negative – I would rather say let’s look at the positive – and that means from the priests perspective. From the parents and friends we all have a part to play in vocations – its not just one group. And I think if we leave it to one group I think that’s when we have a crisis of response. And thank God we have a program called – in play – its called ‘Called by name.’ Some parishes in the archdiocese have implemented this in the last number of months – where a parish is asked to look within itself – in its group – in its parish family – to find out who they might think is called to be a priest or a nun. So that they may be called by name- an individual and say ‘Johnnie we think that you might have a calling.’ Now Johnnie might not have one but Johnnie at least will know that other people might think he might. And that might spark something. Like it sparked something with Archbishop Collins. And the tap on the shoulder and the voice from his pastor. So Johnnie might say I’ve been called by name from my parish, to consider priesthood. So on May the 3rd (referring to last years event) at Saint Paul’s basilica there’s going to be a group of about 50 people, those who have been called by named from various parishes to; priesthood, to consecrated religious life, and to the permanent deaconate with their wives. They’ll be coming to this meeting with the Archbishop who’s going to chat with them - talk to them about the joys of responding to that call, if indeed the lord is calling them. And were going to break up into groups and talk about what it all means - that discernment. And hopefully throw it back to them and say “look what do you think ? Is there something here?”

Daniel : Well good, its good to hear the Archdiocese is implementing more programs now. Cause yeah like you said you know one of the things that – and this can be in any area of life really - we often have a narrow view of ourselves. We don’t see the whole picture. And sometimes it takes somebody else to kind of knock you off the seesaw for a bit. Have you ever thought about going this way, ya know. Which is good, its encouraging to hear that the archdiocese is going to be taking more initiatives to – because we really do – in some of the parishes you see a lack of priests there’s not enough

Father : well ya know there is never enough. There never will be because we are always asking for more. Many years ago in the 30’s 40’s 50’s in a parish there would be a number of priests - a pastor, a number of associates. And the people that would be in the parish wouldn’t be that great. So they might have 2 or 3 masses on a weekend and maybe each parish would hold a couple hundred people at mass. The churches were small. And the priests were able to go into the families. And the majority would be coming to mass on a regular basis. So the priest would know them. The priests would be able to pass on the faith through the liturgies, the sacraments. It was something that came easily.

Now the reality is we have as many if not more priests than we did in the past. But the problem is that the parishes are huge. Ya know in a parish – in a normal size parish – in the archdiocese especially in the suburbs – but even here in Toronto – ya know you have masses and you have 5,6,7 hundred people in a church – which would have been a parish a long time ago. And you have five or six hundred people and that’s just those who are coming to church - the thirty percent or forty percent of those are coming to church. What about all the others who aren’t. And so you may have one priest or two priests or three priests for five thousand families or ten thousand families. And all of these families – not every year – but once in a while – giving calls to the parish – ‘I’d like to have my child baptized’ , ‘my mom is dying in the hospital’ - and the priest is being torn here and there. So we constantly need more priests for sure.

But thank God in our Archdiocese with the help of religious communities, religious priests we’re able to – thank God – we’re able to minister and provide the sacraments – especially the sacrament of the Eucharist – to the people of God in the Archdiocese. Thank God we haven’t gotten to the point that we are at the stage – ‘sorry you cannot have a priest at your parish because we have no priests.’ Thank God we’re not there yet. We’ve been blessed. We have constantly had in our Archdiocese in the past number of years since the mid 80’s – I believe – we’ve been having – at least mid to late 80’s – we’ve been having 4,5,6,7 ordinations a year. Again not enough to do what we really want in terms of connecting to the people. But at least the sacraments are being celebrated. And I really commend the priests – the young men who are saying yes and the priests that are being ordained now a days because they know the work that is before them and they are gung-ho. And they are ready to say yes – in the front lines – and I’m willing to put my life into this service of being with the people of spending many hours in joyful work in the vineyard of the Lord.


Daniel : Now there’s a couple of interesting points you made there. One of them being – and we saw this really in the death of John Paul. There’s a real clash in the ideology of suffering now a days. You know get a headache pop a Tylenol type thing. Do you think greater – or maybe – taking upon more aspects of fasting – encouraging a lot more prayer for vocations – in that it will foster a greater idea of what the call to service and suffering and understanding how that’s part of – ya know being the alter christos – so to speak - that the priest is. Do you think having more days of fasting and prayers for vocations in the diocese would help – or maybe rejuvenate - that aspect of what it is to – because when you look to like the 70’s when all these cartoon characters came out – and there’s a real admiration for – you know I want to be Batman or Superman – sort of heroic virtue type of syndrome. Cause you see the priests who have that – heroic virtue – type of thing – you think having more examples like that would sort of generate a greater desire towards that (the priesthood)

Father : I’ve been a priest 16 years now and I’m not sure if this is answering you questions – I think it is – but I’ve been a priest 16 years and from my experience with the youth – there is almost a part of them- it is almost as if – and I’ll say with me too as well – I don’t know if it happened with you – but when you’re growing up there is a deep desire to serve others. To go out into missions. To feed the poor. To clothe the naked. To do all of that – to visit those who are lonely. There is that desire – its seems like the youth- I use this as an example; I think the majority of us as we’re growing up if we have our parents say “go and cut the grass” – there is that turn off – and we say “uh please not yet – not now.” We don’t want to. But an elderly lady asks us – a next door neighbor – asks us “oh can you cut the grass?’ We do it willingly. And it brings joy. I think that’s what we need to focus on. And in a sense remind the youth and the old alike. Because I think even though its very evident in the youth – its always a apart of the older generation – we always want to help others – and we see it especially always on snowy days - we see it during Christmas – where we say that Christmas spirit – I think its just that desire that we want to help others. A guy is stuck - ya know - a car is stuck in the snow – it seems like people come from no where – they just show up and they’re moving cars from snow banks and they’re willing to help out their neighbor. I think its part of us its who we are. It’s the way God created us to be able to turn away from ourselves and focus on others – and I think you’re right its easy to turn towards ourselves – to turn to the me, myself and I – and we need to turn rather to the other – and I think that’s part of us – its how were created. I think we need to focus on that – in one sense to direct our energies towards that and say “hey how do I move from the me to the you?” And if there are strategies to do that I think it should be implemented.

And for priests to talk about – and for parents to talk about how priests do turn from the me to the you. And every vocation is supposed to do that. We’re suppose to turn from looking at ourselves and looking at the other – because its looking at the other – that we find joy. Again I found deep joy – when I remember when an older person would ask me to help them you know cut the grass or something. I would cut it with joy. You know cutting the grass for another person – who needed my help – it was like ‘wow’ – cutting this grass is a joy. When my father asked me in my own home – it was like ‘oh no’ – it became a chore- and I think what we have to do is remind the youth – that – that which is within them – to serve – to experience a little sacrifice – that they do it. Now ya - I think we also need to bring ourselves to realize where are brothers and sisters are in need. So I know a number of schools often find the best effect in bringing out the Christian desire to help is for example when they have a mission in some other country and they say to the youth in high school for example – lets collect funds for this mission in Uganda. You know the kids just need to hear that there are starving children in Uganda – in a certain mission – and we can help them by having a bake sale – or fundraiser or something – they’ll be there! They’ll sell their ipods – I really believe this –they’ll sell their ipods – they’ll sell their- whatever they can to make sure those poor are helped. And they will feel great about it. I’ve seen it happen. Because they realize that they’re doing something because its part of who they are - to turn away from self and turn towards the other. You see schools say “lets have a fasting day.” And you see these youth’s saying “Ya were in it.” And they fast willingly! And they see it as kind of like a - almost a little mark on their life “Hey I fasted for twenty four hours – oh I fasted for thirty-six hours” They find it a joy.

Daniel : So reconnecting that sense of achievement or accomplishment with sacrifice is something that we definitely need to encourage more. Now this is one question unfortunately we have to deal with at this point of history. I like the response that Collins gave to – I believe it was the Toronto Star – when the Summorium Pontificum regarding the ancient Latin mass. He responded – “well good now we can get on with things.” With this current – ya know whole traditionalist and Vatican II and the Novus Ordo and the old mass – Tridentine mass - as it was called – How do you see that affecting the direction in terms of vocations – to the priesthood. There is – I don’t know how strong there is in the Toronto Archdiocese of devotes to the old ‘Tridentine’ mass – how you foresee that affecting vocations and maybe even the seminarian life – and the study of the liturgy and the faith. How do you foresee that?

Father : Well we remember the new liturgy as we know it by going to mass on the Sunday basis. That’s the ordinary way of celebrating. The extra-ordinary way as Pope Benedict has said would be the possibility of having a ‘Tridentine’ mass. And for those who somehow find that they can connect with God - they need the smells and bells – that they need that – that’s great – if that’s the way that they connect with God. I think that’s great – just as long as – and I don’t want to say it - both sides – cause as soon as we’re say both sides then we’re taking sides. But I would just hope that – we who are in the same house – which is the Catholic Church aren’t using it as a division. Its like if you don’t want to join me in the ‘Tridentine’ mass “you’re not a real catholic.” Or for somebody saying “we’ll because you’re going to the Tridentine mass you’re away from the Catholic Church – the true Church” – “you’re moving away from where the Church is going.” I think as long as people don’t make it a divisive issue I don’t see a difficulty – truly I don’t see a difficulty. I haven’t heard from priests in my conversations with them – its where the need is – its there.

                

Some people – we thank God - we have an Archdiocese that celebrates the Eucharist in over 30 languages. And people hear the Eucharist celebrated in Portuguese, in Italian, in Spanish, in German, in French – you know in all these languages – they need that – it’s the way that they can connect with God. We also need to know our tradition as well. Latin is beautiful – but again I would also say – it’s a language that not everybody knows – its important – just as its difficult for a family - to take kids to a language that the kids don’t understand – and they say they got nothing out of it. Well it can also happen with the Latin as well. Although the Latin being – and still is – the official language of the universal Church – but I think its important that it doesn’t become divisive. I would agree with the Archbishop in saying –‘good now we can move on’. Its like if there is a need we provide that need. And so there are some places in the archdiocese where the Tridentine mass is celebrated. You know if somebody were to ask me to do it – I can’t – I wasn’t trained in it. And I wouldn’t want to do a sloppy job. You know just like I wouldn’t want to celebrate the Eucharist in French because I wouldn’t be able to. I’d do it a disservice to those who would be participating in it. And again if that’s what someone needs to get closer to God – then its part of the Church’s tradition – its part of what we are now. And I think Pope Benedict was basically - in the decree – basically saying that we’re doing– or in a sense we’re allowing what had been allowed before. The Eucharist was celebrated with reverence, with beauty, with mystery in the past and if you look at it – the Eucharist is celebrated now with reverence, with beauty, with mystery – only if we see it. And I think that’s the goal. That we as priests do our best to bring that out. And that the laity recognizes that they have a part to play - that they have to participate actively in that celebration - even in the quietness of the silence - they’re still active. If they put their whole hearts into the silence they’re active.

Daniel : And It’s a very good attitude to take towards it – cause I mean I’ve never actually been to the Tridentine mass. I’ve attended Novus Ordo’s in Latin. I’ve been to papal masses, masses at the Vatican –even been to – throughout Europe. I’ve been to a number of different masses – where you have both the Novus Ordo – with the facing the people – and facing – the altar – towards the cross (ad orientum) – and I’ve seen it incorporated into the Novus Ordo in many different ways – and I think that what you’re saying is absolutely right – that why would you want to celebrate it if you don’t know how to do it properly – right? Do you foresee that’s going to be incorporated into the training of seminarians – more – down – in the future? Do you think its going – like I don’t personal foresee a strong you know sort of turn ‘back the clock’ so to speak, which it really wouldn’t be – you’re not ‘turning back the clock.’ But do you think maybe the priests or seminarians being exposed to that – which is what I really see Benedict trying to do – is that the two are going to have to – at one point – look at each other and say well this is where this comes from – this is what was meant by this change – and this is how we take it forward. Do you think there is going to be more done in the seminaries and the training of priests?

Father : Well I think the seminary is constantly – the seminary is training priests, forming priests. First and foremost in the image of Christ – forming priests in the pastoral – in the four areas – the pastoral, the theological – the spiritual and the –

Pauses

– okay I lost it – it’s late in the day.

Both laugh

Father : but the seminary is responsible for forming priests. And part of that is the need that will be out there. And so priests might be called upon – or sorry the seminarians – might be called upon to learn the Tridentine liturgy – and that means learn the Latin language. But then there may be a seminarian where they say we need you to learn French – because we have a huge community that needs also to be ministered in that language. And if we don’t have priests that are able to minister we’re in trouble. So I think that the seminary has a difficult role in making sure that the needs of the Archdiocese is also being met to the best that they can. To be able to say you know we need to have priests who have musical abilities. We have choir schools. Who’s going to be there? And of course you can continue to ask priests also to further education on their own. I know one priest who has slowly learned that Latin language on his own – with help from another priest that knows the Latin language and has slowly learned the Tridentine liturgy. So that he can celebrate it – he can celebrate it with accuracy – and with reverence – and with dignity. And he’s learning it – and he’s learning it on his own so that he can be of support to the Archdiocese when that’s needed. So the seminary I think has to look at the situation and find out where they can and how they can implement the need. And how they can implement the structure to meet the needs of the Archdiocese.

Daniel : How would you – cause I don’t know if you’ve ever got this feeling – you know when you’re driving by the seminaries and you see these big buildings – and they got the fields – and often times you’ll see – I’ve forgotten the road its on – just near the bluffs

Father : Kingston Road

Daniel : Yep – there’s the odd time I’ve driven by there and you see it all fenced in and when I came to take the vocations retreat every year there – you know you have to kind of buzz up and have somebody have the gate open – and to somebody on the outside its kind of intimidating – kind of scary. How would you describe the seminary life- that whole notion that you’re kind of locked in and you’re never getting out and all that stuff – well what really happens in the seminary?

Father : Well the gates are there because of the reality of the world we live in – where you have people who not only want good – but sometimes they want bad. And they want to destroy as opposed to build up –and so those gates are a necessary evil. Just like you close your door in your home, so you have to close gates so that those who are within – and those outside can be protected. Because the seminary is ultimately is a seed ground. Even the word seminary – it means ‘where a seed can grow’. And the seminary is a fertile ground – we hope- a fertile ground where these men – are like seeds – are able to begin to grow in their love for Christ, in their awareness of their vocation to the priesthood, in their desire to serve. And the movement of growing into the person of Christ – a high priest. And so the seminary is – we say that the seminary is a house of prayer – a house of study – a house community. And that really is for me – I look at my five years at the seminary with deep fondness. One could say it’s like the best years of my life. Now I would say its not the best years of my life – but very critical and important moments of my life. I love being a priest but I remember with fondness the seminary. The seminary is kind of like the courtship – you know - when a young man asks to marry – what’s that period called – before they get married – he asks her

Daniel : treading water –

Father : treading water haha.
No he asks her to marry her and during that period - they’re engaged. Its like an engagement time- everything is rosy. Ya know and the seminaries like that engagement time that you spend. An awareness of the joy of priesthood – awareness of getting to know the Lord in a deeper way through studies. Getting to know what the sacred scriptures are speaking. How it’s speaking to you and to the world. So the seminary is – what’s happening behind those fences are men who are being formed. As seeds grow – and you don’t know how it happens. You know you wake up in the morning and the seed is now a plant and the plant is growing by leaps and bounds. And we can’t see the growth unless we move away ourselves and come back a day or two later. And we see more of the growth – the same thing with these men – they’re growing. Men who enter the seminary in a way are not the same men who are ordained. They have been formed. And they have been formed into the men that the Church needs. The Holy – we pray – intelligent men that we need out there to minister as other Christ’s.

Daniel : Yeah when I went through the discernment period and I did go to the seminary you know it was an interesting experience – you know you get a sense of fraternity. I don’t know if that’s the correct word. And they had that little beer vending machine down there – that was kind of like wow – that’s kind of cool. And you know they have all kinds of sports stuff. Is that part of the life too? You know you do get a sense of competiveness between the guys and you know interest in sports – is that part of the life too?

Father : Part of the life of seminary is community. Now competiveness I didn’t see. Not to say that there isn’t but I didn’t see it personally while I was there. I think rather that’s why I enjoyed it so much. It’s a community of everyone supporting each other knowing they’re all in the same boat. You know we’re all trying to be the best we can be. We’re trying to learn the best we can - supporting each other. In a way we’re really not looking to get higher marks than the person next to us because - we’re hoping – because the issue is not the marks necessarily but how much knowledge can we gain from the classes we take. Can we really delve deep into theology? You know theology is studying who God is. You know who is God? Faith seeking understanding. That’s what theology is. Faith seeking understanding. And that’s why we come in there - faith-filled seeking understanding.

Daniel : Good

Father : Excellent

Daniel : Is there any last minute words – or words of inspiration that you’d like to give to the readers of the magazine.

Father : I would say – I would hope and pray that would remember vocations in their prayers because Pope Benedict said – where prayer is bountiful vocations flourish. So where there is prayer vocations flourish. And I believe what our Holy Father said. I believe that if we pray that the young who are being called by the Lord can hear that call. I think that’s already a lot. It’s not enough to pray. We also need to promote vocations through our words, through our actions, and to the tapping of our hand to another shoulder. Whether it’s someone we might see in the church that all helps. So I would say to the readers to pray for vocations and also pray for those who are already priests. Pray for their pastors. Very important! Pray for their pastors that their pastors can be faith-filled, holy, and continually inspired by the life they lead. To pray for vocations and to pray for their priests, who are ministering to them – not to forget them.

Daniel : Good

Father : Excellent!

        

Discussion with Father Liborio the Vocations Director for the Archdiocese of Toronto

Part 1

(Please note this is a transcript of the 1st part of the talk)      

  

Daniel:  So tell me a bit about your story.  How’d you end up here? How’d you become the vocations guy?  The cheerleader squad? 

Father: Exactly, Exactly

Now where do you want me to start?

 

Daniel: Was there a point where you - like how did you come to see your calling or hear your calling?

 

Father: Well I’m Portuguese, my family immigrated to Canada when I was six years old, so in 1969 and my mom and my dad, myself and two sisters, one older one younger and then I have a brother who was born 10 years after I and who was born here in Canada.

 

Daniel: Oh okay

 

Father: So he’s the Canadian

 

Daniel: Laughs

 

Father: He was made in Canada, were made in Portugal, he’s made in Canada

 

Daniel: So you’re the authentic

 

Father: Exactly, we let him know that oh yes. And he keeps letting us know that he’s the official mungie cake eh you know from Canada. So we came here and I was blessed to have and still do have a Godfather - an uncle who is a priest in this archdiocese.  He came in early 70’s and immigrated here with my grandmother.  He’s my mother’s brother so his last name is Tavares. First name is the same: Liborio.  And he’s the pastor at Saint Mary’s Church on Bathurst and Adelaide here in Toronto.  It’s a very old parish right on Bathurst north of king, Adelaide, Mary of the Angel’s as well its also Portuguese. But this one this priest uncle and Godfather he’s my Godfather.  When I was growing up I would see him coming to visit my family, he was kind of like the taxi driver for my grandmother, his mother.  He would move or on Thursday he would take some time off from ministry, as priest and he would go to drive her from one of his siblings to another. So he would come to our home and would drop off my grandmother for a few days and then would pick her up and then drive her to another house.  So my uncle every time I’d see him there was a smile and it seemed like a happiness, it seems as if his life was complete.  And I would look at this man who didn’t have a wife, didn’t have kids and that was attractive very attractive to me.  I thought wow this guy seems to be always happy and always, whenever he would come by he’d always have stories to tell and how he had touched people’s lives or how people’s lives had touch his life.  He’d talk about this and about that.  I’d hear my father talk but his life stories didn’t seem to be as exciting as my uncle’s.  So it was kind of attractive to me.

As I was growing up one of the things that I would have difficulty with was my schooling.  I think I was dyslexic and I think I still am dyslexic.  But at the time there wasn’t any test for it.  So I was delayed in my education.  I was in a special class for those who were in need of just uh taking it slow in regards to reading and writing.  And when I finished elementary school and went to high school and my thought was “if I can make it to a trade school” not that there’s anything wrong with that, I think that I have to mention that. ‘But if I were to make it to a trade school’ become maybe a mechanic or going to some trade…. Job

 

Daniel: hands on type of stuff

 

Father: hands on job.  Cause I thought that I would not have the capacity to do anything in the educational field.  But in high school it seemed like, for whatever reason, the education came a little easier.  Although reading and writing was – I had difficulty there – and again I think it was because of the dyslexia. 

I was quite good in mathematics and chemistry.  I got an award in chemistry- I never thought I would.  And from high school- as I was completing grade 12 – I thought, “What am I going to do with my life?”  I really liked art and so I took architectural drafting in Sheridan College.  In my first year as I was starting the course – it’s early September – I was in mass it was on a Sunday morning – that was not normal for us as a family.  I was just there with my mom and dad.  My siblings, my sisters and brother must have gone the night before – because we would always go on a Saturday night to Saint John fisher in Brampton.  My father was the caretaker there- was the caretaker there for over 25 years.  So we were there and the pastor there Fr. Edward Mahoney – the pastor there he was preaching – was preaching in front of the people in the pews. He’s was moving his hands and to this day I don’t remember what he said but all I remember was just like I had this – I really appreciated my uncle – and his smile and his happiness – somehow I looked at this priest – moving his hands talking about whatever he was talking about in his homily – and I remember thinking to myself – sitting with my mom and dad – thinking to myself – I’d love to be him right now.  This powerful feeling – I’d love to be him right now.  And when mass was finished I remember walking away with my mom and dad – and I remember turning to them and saying “you know what I don’t know if I’d like to be a priest.’  It was the first time I verbalized it.  I think I had thought about it. Maybe thought about it in grade 7, grade 11 a little bit as well – but I always thought education would preclude me from becoming a priest.  I talked to the vocation director - long time ago – that which I am now and he advised me that I should finish my two years at Sheridan college.  And if I felt that I still had a calling that I should go to university and then to the seminary. 

I went to college got great marks in architectural drafting – even though I wasn’t planning on doing that for the rest of my life- was getting great marks – I was getting A’s and B’s, B +’s and all that – which was fantastic.  And went to university – God was there- helping me out- because I actually passed university – I couldn’t believe it!  You know here’s this guy who can hardly read and write in elementary school and even in high school – here I am getting the marks that I needed to get- with the help of my sisters who also went to university – who were helping me out in terms of looking over my papers and correcting my spelling and grammar.  From there I applied to Saint Augustine’s seminary and was ordained in 1992.  My vocation in a way is a simple one – and one thing is clear – is that each vocation is unique no vocation is similar because God encounters us differently.  He encounters us where we are in our life, not where – he doesn’t meet us all at the same point.  So for my life it was my uncle and this pastor giving me this desire to want to be there talking about God. 

 

Daniel:  THAT’S awesome.

How would you describe – what’s the proper way to put it – would be - how important is the families involvement in the whole process from when a person first feels a calling or is inspired towards the priesthood? How important is the families’ role? Right from that beginning point – like was your family very open to it? Were they very supportive? It sounds like you your family comes from a catholic background who’s solid in their faith. 

 

Father:   Oh yes – we said the rosary every night when I was young – having an uncle who was a priest.  My mother’s cousin was a bishop of Macau.  So it was like we knew we had a bishop in the family.  THE BISHOP OF MACAU! – who actually was a monsignor at the Vatican – and read the third secret of Fatima to the pope at the time – Pope Paul the 6^th I think It was – when Pope Paul the 6^th was there or maybe it was john the 23^rd,  This 2^nd cousin of mine – the pope said ‘ ya let me see this 3^rd secret of Fatima” and they brought it – it was written in Portuguese so the story is told – that the pope looked at it – but to confirm what he was reading – cause I don’t think he was proficient in Portuguese – they called this monsignor – his name was Paulo Jose Tavares As a monsignor he went and read it and of course couldn’t share anything of that secret to anyone.  He was named bishop of Macau.  So having that as a family – my family very much had the grounding – had roots very strong in the catholic faith.  To the question of family: was very important. 

In my vocation story my family was very supportive.  In a sense my family was like the ground that allowed the seed of vocation in me to grow and to flourish.  Very very important.  And I would say that family is critical in – family and the importance of promoting vocations - family is a critical element in vocations. Does it happen for everyone? No!  In a number of cases – sadly, too many – you see young men say yes to the lord – even though the family is not positive and hasn’t been supportive.  You gotta give them credit because some how they have still heard the voice of God even though the family has not been supportive.  Even though that mom and dad would prefer that they would take on a different vocation or a different life.  They have said “no this is what’s for me” and thank God when they have made this decision the family then turns and supports them afterwards.  That often happens as well.  But family is critical – cause like I said because they’re the fertile ground that an individual feels like its okay to think about priesthood.  Its not abnormal – they can begin to say – “I’m not crazy for thinking of this- because look at my own family – they’re supporting me in this – they’re saying if that’s what the lord is calling you to do – say yes”.  So family is critical.

 

Daniel: so what would you – I guess for the people who don’t have that support – or people who are maybe converts to the faith and later discovered a calling – or even sort of interfering parents – reminds me of the story of mother angelica and some of her family who were adamant about it or couldn’t understand it – what would you say to those people who have those kind of situations where their parents – don’t have any understanding of the faith or they have their own intentions I guess their own attachments of letting go of that child – whether it be the priesthood or to some kind of consecrated life – what would you say in that situation to encourage them – cause it must be a very difficult situation to have to deal with!

 

Father:   well see that is the case- you’re right – it is very difficult and again I have to commend them for even going through with that.  Because its so much easier – saves them a lot of hassle – fighting – if they just follow what their parents think that they should do.  But I think that I would say to these people that maybe have a vocation but are finding that there is a little bit of pressure – rather feeling stressed cause neither family nor friends are supportive – I would say to them keep to – keep strong to your faith and the voice you feel you’re hearing in that call – to know that if God is calling them to priesthood that is where they’re going to find happiness and joy.  And to remind them that often family changes so I would say just like as it often happens even with marriage sometimes a parent – every father feels that - if they have a daughter – every father feels that no man is good enough to marry the daughter.  And a mother – the same thing with her son – so it’s the same thing with the church – the father feels like “you’re wasting your life” being a priest.  The mother might say the same thing but then after they begin to realize when they’re able to partake and share in that discernment and formation of the child – becoming a priest or becoming a nun – I think they begin to change their thoughts and they begin to say, “Hey this is good.  There isn’t a – my son is going to be happy.”

I think that one of the things – I recall when I was a pastor in new market for 6 years.  Three and a half years ago close to four years ago now.  Every time I would have a baptismal class for parents who had new babies they wanted to bring them for baptism – I would often ask the parents the question “What is your hope? – What is your wish? – what is your prayer for these children?”  And almost always the response would be “that they be happy” And I think that’s important that parents realize that if God is calling is a son or daughter to the religious life – to be a priest or consecrated religious – that they will be happy.  And that should bring them joy.  That if God is calling a man to be a priest he’s going to be happy there.  He’s not going to be saddened.  I think parents look at priests now a days and I think there’s a little fear because priests are very active – they’re very busy – maybe sometimes don’t show the joy that they have because all you see is priests very active – moving around – boom boom boom – and they don’t have time to show the leisure part of their life.  You know we priests when we relax – we relax and there’s a lot of joy in what we do.  I would say to the individuals who are finding it a struggle to have support amongst family and friends – I would say trust in God – ask the Virgin Mary for help and support – that you’re doing the right thing – in following God’s will in your life. 

 

Daniel: Now you mention the Virgin Mary – how important is devotion to our lady – in the process of discernment would you say? 

 

Father:  Well she’s our mother.  She’s our mother and I think as a mother she’s there to guide us – to protect us – to support us.  And I think for any vocation – especially to the priesthood – you need to have – form a devotion to our lady – maybe that’s something that we’ve lost a bit – you know now a days – where uh – maybe the rosary isn’t promoted as much as it had been in the past – maybe its – the rosary is now seen as the uneducated prayer for those who are not capable of higher knowledge – higher education. That’s of course totally wrong.  I’m not saying that those – you know I remember the story of an old man – old priest – who is in one of those train cars and sitting across from him is a young man and he’s going to hear a priest speak – and he’s talking to this old priest who is having a book to read – he’s talking to this old priest and saying “you know you guys are backwards – you need to move forward in your thinking – I’m going to go and hear this wonderful – this vibrant – this very forward thinking theologian. His name is – Rahner – Father Karl Rahner. He’s an intelligent man – just forward thinking and here you are – you have your rosary in your hand – and what do you think? This rosary in your hand – that’s for old people.  Father we shouldn’t be promoting that anymore – forward thinking like this priest Karl Rahner” and this old priest nodding and saying “ Is that right?”  And this old priest saying “But this rosary is important to me.” 

And after bothering this priest and commenting about how this priest – even without knowing him is kind of like backward – he goes – they leave – separate – and he goes to this hear this famous theologian speak. And he’s waiting in the pew, you know waiting for this great theologian Karl Rahner and he sees this old priest come up to the pulpit and who is this but the man who was right in front of him on the train – Karl Rahner was the one that was saying the rosary.  You know and its just a reminder to us that the rosary is part of our tradition and very important – it reminds us that we’re not alone – that we have a family and that part of that family – Mary – is an integral part of it – for we as priests who in a sense don’t have a wife and kids – we marry the church – and Mary is there to support our life as priests.  So Mary is a very important figure in the life of a priest and can help in the struggles that he has – you know when a priest struggles in his loneliness – in his priesthood and it often happens to all of us as priests – Mary is there to support us.

 

Daniel: would you say that there’s a loss of the concept of the priest being married to the church in some aspects?  Maybe not necessarily in the new generation, maybe in the mid 50’s and up?  Do you think there’s been a detachment from that ideology which has been part of this whole mess that we’ve gone through in the last 40 years?

Father: You know I would say that – that’s a good question – I think that there was a tendency after Vatican II for priests to want to seem like a regular Joe

 

Daniel: yeah maybe independent

 

Father: well in a sense – to be able to say I’m with you I’m one of you –in a sense to come down from the pedestal – because being on the pedestal was not all so – a bed of roses – for the priests and the people.  And so the priests in a sense decided – its kind of like – we want to be able to be with you – so the idea of wearing a collar wasn’t so important anymore.  And the idea of – I want to be a regular Joe – and so “if you’re going to be playing sports – so am I.  If you’re going to put down a beer so am I.”  And its not to say that priests don’t drink beer – they do!  Priests do play sports and that’s who we are.  We can’t deny that but we are also called apart.  I think that might have been something that may just have been a reaction from what was happening at the time.  But from what my experience of those who are being ordained now a days and my time at the seminary there was this idea that “yeah you’re marrying the church!”  As Archbishop Collins often says – which I love his line – you know “ you marry the mission” you know “ you marry the mission” and the mission is to represent Christ in the world now a days – to be his mouth – to be his hands – to be his voice – to speak the truth – to proclaim the gospel – that Jesus is real and alive and wants us to be part of his life. 

 

Daniel: Yeah its interesting - I find the last 40 years – studying it- its very interesting – not just in terms of uh within the catholic church – but within the world in itself.  It seems like there was an instantaneous revolution – worldwide – in terms of with authority and with God and with sex and it just seems there was this instantaneous revolution and it wasn’t just in north America – its in Europe – in Asia – in Vietnam – and it’s a fascinating aspect of history that we’re living in.  How do you see – like from the lay persons point of view I see a real distinction between the priests that are coming out of the seminary in the last I’d say ten years – there’s a real – I guess you could call it orthodoxy –but they’re very – I don’t want to say modern – in terms of the modernism that the catholic church is opposed to.  But they are very with the times in terms of how the world currently is – with the media – and how important all these different aspects of life have become – but there’s also a real attachment to the traditions. What do you think has contributed to that?  Like if you look between now and 30 years ago – how do you - do you think there’s an explanation for that? 

 

Father: There is a sense of wanting to go back to encounter our tradition and maybe – it might be that we’ve forgotten about the beauty of tradition and what we have in our church.  It’s also surprising that the young who are becoming priests – who are thinking about the traditional aspect, are the ones who didn’t go through it! 

 

Daniel: yeah that’s a point that is often been made

 

Father: so its like the priests that have gone through it – they have to remind also  - now I didn’t go through it – the changes – I was born in 1963 – that was right at the beginning of 2^nd Vatican council – so I didn’t really experience the changes – I was a young man – you know coming to Canada - 1969 – changes were already occurring – in terms of the liturgy – and all of that.  My uncle had to go through that and so did other priests – priests who went through all of that and survived – thank God – cause that was also a big time for them – big revolution within their own lives – because here they were use to celebrating mass in Latin – away from the people – all of a sudden they’re asked to turn their heads – and now they see faces looking at them.  That wasn’t so easy – it’s a lot easier to not – in a sense- look at people’s faces and eyes. 

But I think you talk to these priests who were able to – thank God – incorporate the changes that the church was asking them to incorporate in their lives – they also realized that there was newness and freshness to what they were celebrating and experiencing in their life.  And when these older priests now talk to the young they have to remember the young and remind the young and say “hey its wasn’t all rosy as you make it to be!  There were the traditions but there were some traditional things that had somehow been incorporated into the liturgies that made no sense even to the priests.”  The priests would say “why am I doing this?’ or “why am I wearing this in the liturgy?”  and I think that’s why 2^nd Vatican council came to kind of make sense of what didn’t make sense any longer.  And the older have to remind the young of this.  And the young also reminding the old as well – at the same time – saying “ but there was beauty in it”  And there is!  I think its also a reaction that the Eucharist can lose a bit of its mystery when we are not fully immersed in it. 

You know we would have “smells and bells” as they use to say.  The smells of incense.  The bells of the ringing.  And we would see the priests wear elaborate culps and chasubles and there would be lights and candles and there would be movement – liturgical movement – and all of that appealed to the senses – that brought in the mystery of what we were celebrating.  Now because – when things began to change – there wasn’t so much “smells and bells”.  And so I think people are searching for the mystery and even priests who are now entering through formation they desire in a sense to connect to the mystery.  I think that the goal is for priests old and young to be able to celebrate the Eucharist and see the mystery and experience the mystery just as those in the pews – to be  able to experience the mystery in the celebration that occurs  at their local church.  To be able to go to mass and say “I’ve encountered Christ.” 

 

Daniel: and I think that’s the whole point of It really – that’s the whole reason why we’re really here. How important is – like – that aspect of the priest’s ministry as well as part of the discernment process and journeying towards becoming ordained – how important is the Eucharist?  In that regard.  Because you rarely – very rarely – do have the odd cases where you find that a true sense of what is occurring in the liturgy and the transubstantiation into the body and blood of Christ – there are some who don’t truly grasp that mystery – so how would you – or how important is the Eucharist and the sacrament in the priest or seminarians discernment?

 

Father: I would say this, as a vocation director often a sign that a young man is called to the priesthood is the connection he has with the Eucharist.  I’ve had men – one or two – not many at all – and I meet a good number of men – I’ve had a couple of men who have come to see me where the Eucharist is not central in their life.  They’re not going to church on a regular basis – so they feel like they might be having a calling to the priesthood – and I have to tell them “look you may be called to the priesthood but not right now.”  Because there isn’t a love of the Eucharist.  Because from my experience as a vocation director one of the true signs that a man is being called is a deep desire to be involved in the Eucharist.  And that might mean wanting to attend the Eucharist on a regular basis – not only Sundays but during the week – wanting to pray before the blessed sacrament- having some quality and quantity time with the lord in front of the blessed sacrament – in that silence where they’re hearing the lord speak to them.  So I would say that the Eucharist and its importance to verifying a person’s discernment and journey – vocation – that vocation to the priesthood – to verify it the Eucharist is critical.  The Eucharist is critical.

 

Daniel:  Now what would you say in terms of – because you’d obviously be very involved in promoting vocations in the diocese and speaking about it at – I’ve seen you at a number of parishes myself in Mississauga – what would you say to the priests that maybe didn’t come to that full understanding of how important that connection is – or maybe have some confusion of that and don’t encourage or foster Eucharistic adoration You’ve said that’s central – do you think that possibly could be one of the reasons why you don’t have as many people acknowledging the call? Because if you ask me.  I don’t think – you know you hear a lot about vocations crisis and all that – which I don’t really buy – I don’t think there really is any vocations crisis.  I think there’s maybe a response crisis or an acknowledgement of – you know “no priest – oh me oh oh no  (shaking hands) – how important is the pastor and his devotion and promotion of Eucharistic adoration – and if you had any words  of encouragement to the priests out there.

 

Father: Very critical!  Again I’m using the word critical to a number of things but yeah I would say that the pastor is a critical element to vocations very much.  I’m the vocation director.  My title is vocation director.  But really every priest is a vocation director – as a matter of fact the pastor who’s on the front line is truly a vocation director much more than I am.  Because what I do is I really respond to the men who are thinking about it.  And I don’t know where they are.  But pastors often do.  And they often know who they are by the signs that they see.  Now one of the things that priests are called to do – one of the things they are called to do is to find, witness in their parishes who might have a vocation to the priesthood or consecrated religious life – and not be afraid to tap them on the shoulder and say “hey buddy have you thought about being a priest?” 

Archbishop Thomas Collins - his vocation story he mentions about being at a window in a school when his local pastor whom he admire very much tapped him on the shoulder and said “Thomas have you ever thought of being a priest?”  And he said, “Coming from his pastor whom he very much admired was a critical point in his discernment.”  He said, “I have to give this serious thought - serious consideration because of who that person was that asked me.”  You know he really admired his pastor.  He felt his pastor was a great guy.  So our priests are very much vocation directors.  Now part of promoting vocations is by being happy, joyful and holy priests.  Now we all fall short in that, so do I.  Its just like – you know how do we promote happy marriages?  By looking at a happy husband and happy wife.  You know when you see a happy husband and a happy wife holding hands, sharing love for one another that is very attractive to others who feel that they may also have a calling to marriage.

So for diocesan priesthood a young man who’s thinking of being a priest can be helped immensely in making his decision to be a priest by seeing his pastor giving witness to the joys of priesthood.  Devotion to the Eucharist that a priest shows is very very powerful.  Its like when you go to mass a priest celebrates the Eucharist, a priest who has a deep faith or a priest who doesn’t have a deep faith its still the Eucharist, transubstantiation still occurs.  But the fruits of the Eucharist can be extremely powerful – I can say it’s like a – how would I say it – when a priest lives what he eats – when he takes in the Eucharist and lives that out other people see it and they’re able to experience the Eucharist like ‘WOW!’ When you see a holy priest celebrate the Eucharist you can connect – in a deeper way – through that priest the mystery of Christ, the mystery of the Church, the mystery of God.  So I often tell my brother priests ‘please if you look at guys, young woman in the pews that you think might have a religious vocation.  Please don’t be afraid to tap them on the shoulder.  Don’t be afraid to smile.’  One of the campaigns I’d love to have would just be having a poster where you have five priests just smiling.  ‘We’re happy!’  A big sign ‘We’re happy. Join us!’  That’s all. 

 Stay tuned for the 2^nd part of this interview.

You may visit the Toronto Vocations Office on the web : http://www.vocationstoronto.ca/